Atlant-rapier-msg – 7/23/05

History of rapier combat in the SCA Kingdom of Atlantia.

NOTE: See also the files: SCA-fence-hist-msg, Atlantia-hist-msg, East-hist-msg, child-stories-msg, Trim-hist-msg, SCA-hist1-msg, SCA-stories1-msg, royal-deaths-msg.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: kattratt <kattratt at charter.net>
Date: March 1, 2005 7:50:17 PM CST
To: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
Subject: [Fwd: [atlantianrapiernet] Re: Academie, history, and such]

 -------- Original Message --------
Subject: [atlantianrapiernet] Re: Academie, history, and such
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 09:20:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Snell <cds at pianosa.org>
To: atlantianrapiernet at yahoogroups.com

On the History of Rapier in Atlantia

In the beginning, there was little to no Rapier in Atlantia.  And then it
was introduced (again) with expirimental rules around Twelfth Night of
1989.  The tradition of wearing the blue scarf started at around the same
time in 1990.  It's original intention was meant to show support for
Rapier in Atlantia, not necessarily to signify an authorized rapier
fighter.  Rapier continued to grow and prosper in our fair Kingdom.

On April 3, 1993 4 good gentles were inducted into the Order of the
l'Academie d'Espe, the original Kingdom award for rapier in the Kingdom of
Atlantia.  I personally do not know if the award was armigerous or not; if
anyone can clear this up, feel free.  The symbol of this Order was that of
wearing a Yellow Scarf either on a shoulder, or around your waist (*cough*
Niall *cough*).  On April 20, 1996 Atlantia signed the White Scarf Treaty
which states that an award in your kingdom for rapier be some variation of
a White Scarf (ours was, I believe, the first to vary from pure white).
The 14 members of the original Order of the l'Academie d'Espee were
inducted into a new Academie d'Espee, Order of the White Scarf, an Award
of Arms bearing award, and the old Order was closed.  All Yellow Scarves
were removed from the them, and White Scarves were granted.  Atlantia, at
that time, did not have any Grant level awards like we do now.  Shortly
thereafter (I think the same day), the first Freescholars were made by 3
White Scarves each, hence starting a long tradition.

Sometime around 2.5 years ago (I think, again, correct my history if I'm
wrong), the Crowns raised all of their AoA level awards (the Pearl,
Kraken, Yew Bow, WS, etc.) to GoA awards, hence creating the Orders of
High Merit.  They then created AoA awards along similar veins.  This is
how the Order of the Sea Dragon came to be.

Of Titles and the Like

The title of Provost, according the SCA College of Arms, is not a
heraldic title, which means that officially, its use is unrestricted, even
if you don't have an Award of Arms.  The title of Don/Dona equates to
Lord.  It is Atlantian Tradition for many (not all) of the members of the
White Scarf of Atlantia to bear the title of Provost (or is it a job
description?), but a few choose to use the title of Don.  There are
members of a guild (not sure of its officiallity) in the East Kingdom
which also use the title Provost for one of their ranks.  GoAs in this
Kingdom, unlike some others, do not officially carry the title of The
Honorable Lord/Lady; this also is not a recognized title according the the
SCA College of Arms.

Of Oaths

White Scarf and other oaths of the Academie are NOT oaths of fealty.  I
have seen, and taken part in, WS oaths that have taken place in the Crowns
presence, out of the Crowns presence, in court, out of court, and also we
have had members who have never taken the WS oath.  I have no memory of
any WS taking an actual Oath of Fealty, except when otherwise required
(i.e. Landed Baronage, Knighthood, etc.).  That's not to say that we don't
support the crowns with all of our body and soul, but just that we don't
regularly take Oaths of Fealty (which would require taking an Oath when
new Crowns are sworn in).

And on to Opinions

You will note that some of what is written above is in law, and some if it
is but mere tradition.  That's how Rapier in Atlantia works :).  Tradition
and Law both evolve over time, as is evidenced by this hearty discussion.

So now back to the original discussion, the term Academie d'Espee has been
around since Atlantia started giving awards for Rapier (and possibly
earlier).  I personally think it exists merely because Alan doesn't like
the term "Rapier Community" :).  The wearing of blue scarves officially
pre-dates the Academie (how do you like them apples?).  As many have
already said, but I will try to sum up, the Academie d'Espee is
officially, the members of the Order of the White Scarf of Atlantia, and
unofficially anyone who supports rapier in the Kingdom of Atlantia.  It
could be considered a guild, a bunch of friends, those silly Elizabethans,
a secret cult bent on the destruction of the Universe (no wait, that's the
Cylons), a herd of cats, or whatever you choose it to mean to you (I
choose to believe it's a herd of silly Elizabethan cats :-) ).  Some loose
framework was laid out to enhance the experience of Rapier in the Kingdom
of Atlantia with a historical bent, and so we have scholars and
freescholars.

Sincerely,

Percival Aldridge, Provost
Principal of the Academie d'Espee, Order of the White Scarf of Atlantia

From: kattratt <kattratt at charter.net>
Date: March 1, 2005 7:50:59 PM CST
To: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [atlantianrapiernet] Re: Academie, history, and such]

 Part 2

 -------- Original Message --------

 Subject:
 Re: [atlantianrapiernet] Re: Academie, history, and such

Date:
 Fri, 25 Feb 2005 12:12:31 -0500

From:
 Aedan Aylwyn <aedan at mindspring.com>

To:
 atlantianrapiernet at yahoogroups.com

>On April 3, 1993 4 good gentles were inducted into the Order of the
>l'Academie d'Espe, the original Kingdom award for rapier in the Kingdom of
>Atlantia.  I personally do not know if the award was armigerous or not; if

Yes, it was armigerous.  It was created as an Order of Merit at the same
level as the Golden Dolphin, Pearl, etc...   This was done by Stephen and
Twyla (I believe).  There had been a lot of talk before hand to prepare for
this new order and thievery from the LMoD was at hand for "titles" (little "t"
as none of this had OP impact, title-wise).  I remember the event very
well, including the auto accident that happened on the street right next
to us and all the funny dressed people that ran over to help out.

The planning for this award had been happening for a while.  The only
uncertainty was who would get the first ones.  I remember Gregoire
(aka Nathanial) being very surprised at being one of the first four.  He
was my first rapier teacher and I was happy to see it happen.  Since
the blue scarves were already established, it was decided to call the
new Order (wearing yellow scarves) "Provosts", the blue scarves (that
were authorized fighters) were "Free Scholars" and pretty much
anyone that wanted could call themselves "Scholar".  I always thought
that a little goofy but understood that the groundwork was being laid
for joining the WS treaty when Atlantia was ready.

Even at this point in time, there were some, (especially in SC, to my
recollection) that viewed the blue scarf still as the "supports rapier"
original meaning and not the "part of the Academie" change.  This
is the genesis for much later confusion and discussion.

>Niall *cough*).  On April 20, 1996 Atlantia signed the White Scarf Treaty
>which states that an award in your kingdom for rapier be some variation of
>a White Scarf (ours was, I believe, the first to vary from pure white).

Atlantia was the first to vary by law.  By tradition, some other WS kingdoms
would add personal arms or other variations to the ends of their white scarf
but nothing spelled out.  The WS design was hammered out from lots of
work by Isobel drawing various heraldic possibilities and a bunch of us sitting
around in a hotel room at an Ice Castles when Cuan and Bridget were on
the thrones.  And yes, we got snowed in for an extra 2 days, so there was
plenty of time for discussion.

>Sometime around 2.5 years ago (I think, again, correct my history if I'm
>wrong), the Crowns raised all of their AoA level awards (the Pearl,
>Kraken, Yew Bow, WS, etc.) to GoA awards, hence creating the Orders of

Actually, there were plans to great a 3 tier system (Patent/Grant/Award) but
much discussion about whether to raise such awards as the Pearl up
to GoA (and create a new AoA set of awards) or to create a new GoA
set of awards.  Since the WS was supposed to be the top rapier award
in the kingdom, that part was clear cut.  The WS award was changed
to a GoA bearing Order as Galmr and Katherina(??) stepped down.  But
the expectation for changing the other orders didn't happen that Coronation.
So there was a span of a reign or two where the WS was the only
GoA bearing Order.

>description?), but a few choose to use the title of Don.  There are
>members of a guild (not sure of its officiallity) in the East Kingdom

Don't go there.  There's always been a lot of confusion about titles
and rapier stuff in the East.  They started using "Don' with their unofficial
cording system and the top level gold cords.  Then they gained the
Order of the Golden Rapier (OGR) award and those folks started
using "Don" as well.  Since there wasn't 100% overlap between OGR's
and gold cords, it was confusing (at least to me).  Oh yeah, and
both some of varieties of "Don" (OGR or gold cord) took "cadets".
The cording system has pretty much died down and changed now
into a series of schools.  Not sure what they're doing for titles but
just like us, much was borrowed from the LMoD.

Perhaps some of the EK lurkers on this list can enlighten us.

>have had members who have never taken the WS oath.  I have no memory of
>any WS taking an actual Oath of Fealty, except when otherwise required

The WS Order as a whole has been called into court at a Coronation at
least once (2 or 3 times??) to swear fealty.  But it is a rare thing and I
don't think it has happened recently.

>So now back to the original discussion, the term Academie d'Espee has been
>around since Atlantia started giving awards for Rapier (and possibly
>earlier).  I personally think it exists merely because Alan doesn't like
>the term "Rapier Community" :).  The wearing of blue scarves officially

Yep, I'll agree with that.  The badge for the Academie (rapiers and roses)
was (I believe) the badge for the original Order.  When the Order was
closed, Nathanial got permission and registered the device as a personal
device so that we could retain possession of the heraldry.  He then
gave blanket permission to Atlantian rapier fighters to use the device.

How's that for more history???

Aedan - who considers himself part of the "second generation" of Atlantian 
rapier
----------
Baron Aedan Aylwyn, Provost                     Caer Mear, Atlantia
Email: aedan (at) mindspring.com                Royal Bad Influence - Retired
Academie d'Espee: http://www.mindspring.com/~aedan

<the end>