fd-Germany-msg – 3/25/15

Medieval and Period German food. Cookbook sources. Recipes. References.

NOTE: See also the files: Germany-msg, German-Feast-art, German-Fst-OC-art, pickled-foods-msg, turnips-msg, vinegar-msg, vegetables-msg, beer-msg, root-veg-msg.

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                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: Tom Brady <tabrady at mindspring.com>
Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 08:48:24 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Questions

>One reference he made in the first chapter caught my eye. He says that
>the first cookbook printed on a printing press was Kuchenmeisterey
>(Cooking Mastery) printed in Nuremberg in 1485 and that 56 editions of
>this book were printed. Has anyone heard of it? Is it available in
>English Translation?

Here's what I was able to find in the Library of Congress records:

Title:         Kuchenmeysterey / in Abbildung herausgegeben von
                  Rolf Ehnert.
Published:     G=E8oppingen : K=E8ummerle, 1981.
Description:   65, x p. ; 21 cm.
Series:        Litterae ; Nr. 71
LC Call No.:   TX721 .K934 1981
Dewey No.:     641.5943 19
ISBN:          3874524760
Notes:         Photoreproduction of original published: Passau :
                  Printed by Johann Petri, 1486? Now owned by Bayerische
                  Staatsbibliothek M=E8unchen (4o Inc. s.a. 161a/3)
               Bibliography: p. x.
Subjects:      Cookery, German -- Early works to 1800.
Other authors: Ehnert, Rolf.
               Petri, Johannes, 1441-1511.
Other titles:  K=E8uchenmeisterei.
Series Entry:  Litterae (K=E8ummerle Verlag) ; Nr. 71.
Control No.:   81188708=20

Nothing about a translation there, but that doesn't mean that one doesn't
exist.

Hope this helps a little,
Duncan
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Brady    tabrady at mindspring.com   SCA: Duncan MacKinnon of Tobermory

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 06:23:43 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: SC - Ein/Das Buoch Von Guter Spise

I've been advised by Mistress Caterina Sichlingen Von Nurnberg that her
translation of Ein Buoch Von Guter Spise is available on the Web at the
following URL:
http://cs-www.bu.edu/students/grads/akatlas/workroom.html

German 14th-century cookbooks, get 'em while they're 'ot, they're
lovely...fox nipple chips, otter's noses...

Seriously, though, there is also some additional stuff that will be of
interest, like various works in progress.

Have fun!
Adamantius

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:47:38 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - SC-German food in period

What constitutes Medieval German cooking is difficult to say.  There
would be differences depending on what foodstuffs were generally
available in a region.  The northern region would use more fish, while
the southern region would use more meat, etc.  Were I really pushed, I
might also say:  "Cherries, apples, hazelnuts, cinnamon, nutmeg, sweet
dishes, sour dishes."

Charlemange incorporated the German states into the Carolingian Empire
around 800 C.E.  and they became part of the Holy Roman Empire when it
was officially recognized in 962.  The HRE officially died in 1806, but
it was effectively dead by the mid-16th Century.  So German cooking
would probably have been heavily influenced by early French cooking.  I
posted a couple of translations here a short while back which would give
you an idea of the foods available around 800-900.

For later recipes, you might try Das Buch von Guter Speise, a
translation of which is available on the Web and in paper,  This dates
from about 1354.

Other possible sources (which I do not have copies of dang it):

1400    Manuscript DII30 at the University of Basel (there is a
published thesis of about 40 copies)
1485    Kuchenmeisterei (The Mastery of the Kitchen)
1553    Das Kochbuch der Sabrina Welserin
1581    Das Neu Kockbuch (I think this is part of Cariadoc's translation
project) (Rumpolt)
1603    Speisebuchlein:  Darrinnen Kurtzer Vnterricht von allerley
Speise vnd Trank so zur Menchlichen Nahrung dienlich... (Hubner)
1609    Ein Schon kunstlich Kochbuchlein von Vielen vnd manchen Richten
(original currently in the Passau Glasmuseum)
1719    Neues Saltzburgisches Koch-buch

It's not much help, but it's what I've got.

Bear

Subject: German cookbook
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 21:50:28 -0500
From: vjarmstrong at aristotle.net (Valoise Armstrong)
To: stefan at texas.net

>Is this just translations or redactions, too? How much for the book?
>How is it bound? How many pages? Is it the complete Das Kochbuch der
>Sabina Welserin? How can people reach you to order it? Just some of the
>questions that I imagine people are going to ask.

Translations only, no redactions, of 205 recipes in Das Kochbuch der Sabina
Welserin. It is the complete cookbook. It's forty pages spiral bound for
$16. I can be reached at:
Valoise Armstrong
P.O. Box 2492
Little Rock, Arkansas 72203
vjarmstrong at aristotle.net

I am on the sca-cooks list and sca-arts list, but I wasn't sure if it would
be polite to post there about commercial projects (even on a tiny scale
like this).

Valoise

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:41:17 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - German anyone?

Here is another site you might find useful.

http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/kobu.htm

Ras

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 06:53:26 -0500
From: vjarmstrong at aristotle.net (Valoise Armstrong)
Subject: Re: SC - German anyone?

Bear wrote:
>>Das Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin is available in translation, but I don't
>>have the information.

The English translation is mine and I have a couple of copies left, e-mail
me if you're interested.  I am planning on offering it to Cariadoc for his
published cookbook collection after that as the pace of my mundane life is
rapidly increasing.  As far as I know, Sabina Welser and Ein Buch von Guter
Speise are the only two German texts that have been translated into
English.

If you have access to a university library for interlibrary loan you might
down Thomas Gloning's bibliography at
http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/cookbib.htm

This is the most comprehensive list of material that I've found on German
cooking and drink and although Gloning's rannge of dates extends outside
SCA time it's still useful. Unfortunately most of these sources are in
German and many are unavailable in the US or are pretty rare.

Several people have mentioned Gloning's home page:
http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/kobu.htm
This has the complete text of Ein alemannisches Buechlein vonn guter Spise
and a portion of a Rheinfrankisches Kochbuch (neither one in English) as
well as a few redactions that I think are in English (I think - it's been a
while since I looked).

Valoise

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:29:31 +0200 (CET)
From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
Subject: Re: SC - German Anyone? "Rheinfraenkisches Kochbuch (1445)"

I have just been editing the German cookery book from the Ms. germ. fol.
244 (now in Berlin) from about 1445, the "Rheinfraenkisches Kochbuch". It
has been published, together with
a facsimile, a transcription, translation (to new High German), notes,
glossary and an article by Trude Ehlert (from "Das Kochbuch des
Mittelalters"). It can be obtained by Ludwig Auer in Donauwoerth.

For further information see my homepage:
  http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/rfk.htm

There is also a bibliography, which contains many studies and sources:
  http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/cookbib.htm (but it is long)

Thomas

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:41:46 -0500
From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)
Subject: Re: SC - German anyone?

Armstrong, Valoise. Sabina Welser’s Cookbook.  Translated from Das
Kochbuch der Sabina     Welserin (c. 1553). Privately published,
Little Rock, AR, 1998.  English translations    only, no originals,
no redactions.  Frau Welserin’s own collection of recipies.

Valoise should be on this list.  Her book is available for sale.  If she
doesn't post you, let me know and I'll find her address.  She hasn't
redacted the recipies, and as I recently bought it, I haven't
either--yet!

Fahrenkamp, H. Jurgen.  Wie man eyn teutsches Mannsbild bey Krafften
halt.  (in      German).  Prisma Verlag. Munchen or Gutersloh,  1986.
ISBN 3 570 09730 7      Sources and originals not given, occasionally
mentioned.  Modern German redactions.

Eleonora Maria Rosalia.  Freiwillig aufgesprungner Granat-Apffel.
Hausmettel and kochrezepte von 1709.  (taken from a hand-written recipe
book of the 16th C.)
        (in Gerrman).  Working on translation.

I've got the above two books.  Love to cook German food, glad to help if
I can.  I also have some modern German cookbooks in English, and some in
German, to which we can refer if something absolutely stumps us.
Sometimes, 'reverse engineering' helps a little.

Allison

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 20:42:37 -0500
From: vjarmstrong at aristotle.net (Valoise Armstrong)
Subject: Re: SC - Sauerkraut

Ras wrote:
>Cool! Could you write down and send the SPECIFIC reference (pub., pg. etc.).
>I've just added sauerkraut to the Oct. menu. :-) Period-like, of course, but
>it WILL be there.

Roeck,  Bernd.  Baecker, Brot und Getreide in Augsburg. Sigmaringen: Jan
Thorbecke Verlag, 1987.

It's probably out of print, but I got it fairly easily through interlibrary
loan. I didn't save the ISBN, just photocopied what I needed. It's not as
interesting as it sounds at first - the subtitle translates to something
like - The history of the baking trade and the politics of supply in the
Imperial city at the time of the Thirty Year's War_. But mixed in with the
out of period and political stuff are some nice tidbits, like the food
budget for an orphange in 1572 and speculation from period sources on what
the working class ate and spent on food. There's also an appendix that
giving the Augsburg municipal baking laws from 1606.

It's cultural history, academic and in German, but there are some SCA
applicable parts.

Valoise

Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 15:46:39 -0500
From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)
Subject: Re: SC -  carp and lebkuchen

I was looking up some info on the lebkuchen in some of my German
referances, and noticed the statement that carp is traditionally cooked
in Germany on Christmas Eve, as it goes back to the monks' ponds.
Evidently, they kept carp as a staple.  The fattening of the Christmas
carp might begin as early as August.  So, as soon as we're home from
Pennsic, we rush out and feed the fish!!!  They didn't say what was used
to fatten the carp, or what monks used in place of cardboard boxes of
fish flakes.

My German family has a herring salad, with beets, for Christmas eve and
other special family events, but I think that comes from the
great-grandfather who was a trader based in Riga, Russia.  Which brings
us back to lebkuchen.

These spice cakes/cookies were developed from a happy mixture of the
Franconian honey trade and the Pfeffersa"cke, the 'peppersacks' as
Nure"mberg's prosperous medieval merchant adventurers were called.
"Commercial gingerbread was baked by the members of an exclusive guild,
known as Lebku"chler."  Scharfenberg, Horst.  _The Cuisines of Germany_,
Simon & Schuster, Inc., 1989.  Definately prepared for the modern USA
market, but good food and sometimes interesting info.  (The quotation
marks in German words are attempting to be umlauts)

Allison, who is not a spoon tease, I don't have the herring salad recipe.
 It's SECRET and I don't remember because I only helped with it once, 13
years ago.  There's green stuff, and chopped pickled beets, and chopped,
cooked herring, and chopped, pickled gherkins and more stuff.

Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 18:29:02 -0500
From: vjarmstrong at aristotle.net (Valoise Armstrong)
Subject: Re: SC - Sabina Welser's Cookbook

>At Pennsic, I picked up a cookbook titled Sabina Welser's Cookbook
>translated from Das Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin (c. 1553) by Valoise
>Armstrong.   Does anyone know anything about the german source for this
>cookbook?  Are the recipes truly all from the mid-1500s?
>Unfortunately, this is only the English translation and does not include
>the original german.

According to Hugo Stopp who edited the hand-written manuscript for
publication the majority of the book appears to be written in one
handwriting style, that of Sabina Welserin. Unfortunately there were
several women in the Welser family with that name in the 16th C. but the
likeliest suspects died in either 1576 or 1599. Stopp also says that
additions were made by a second person, but he describes the second
handwriting as being a distinctly 16th C. style. So, yes, the recipes date
from the 16th C.

>The reason I ask is this cookbook is unsual in several regards. A number
>of the recipes give amounts. There are several pastry recipes (standing
>pies, dumplings and tarts). Since these are unusual offerings in the
>English, French and Italian books I have studied I wondered if this
>cookbook was entirely from the mid-1500's or maybe contained later
>recipes as well.

The recipes are sometimes more detailed than earlier cookbooks, but this
might have more to do with the time period than the location. Most of the
English and Frennch medieval cookbooks that are readily available are
definitely earlier than this. But look at Knelme Digby and Hugh Plat's
Delightes for Ladies - their instructions are much more detailed than
earlier English recipes.

If anyone's interested Hugo Stopp's transcription along with a translation
into modern German shouldn't be too hard to get through interlibrary loan.

Das Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin. Heidelberg: Carl Winter
Univeritaetsverlag, 1980.
        ISBN 3-533-02905-0

Valoise

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:19:50 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: SC - Sabrina Welserin Webbed

I have just added Valoise Armstrong's translation of Sabrina Welserin to my
web page; you can find it at:

http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Cookbooks/Sabrina_Welserin.html

David Friedman

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:12:58 +0100 (CET)
From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
Subject: SC - bibliographies

I have put a _slightly_ enlarged version of cookbib.htm on my website.
In addition, I extracted from this file all the German sources and put
them in a chronological order, beginning with the many editions and
facsimiles of the "Buoch von guoter spise".
You can find these lists at:

  http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/cookbib.htm

and

  http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/germcook.htm

As always: additions and suggestions are extremely wellcome.

Thomas
 ***
 Dr. Thomas Gloning
 Germanistik, Universitaet Giessen
 http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909
 New edition of 15th century cookery book:
 http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/rfk.htm

Subject: Re: ANST - Medieval Food, clothing, tents and German armor
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 98 06:52:59 MST
From: RAISYA at aol.com
To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG

Two of the lists are 14th century.
None of the lists are specifically 12th century, but the 9th century
Charlemagne list would almost certainly have been available to a 12th century
German, and certainly had a major influence on what was grown.  I'd also
recommend this site, with the earliest known German language cookbook:

Ein Buch von guter spise (c. 1345 to 1354)
http://www.cs.bu.edu/students/grads/akatlas/Buch/buch.html

The earliest German garden book (or health manual, unclear which) I have
tracked down is HORTUS SANITATIS (or possibly called GART DER GESUNDHEIT),
Peter Schoeffer, Mainz, 1485.  However, the title and a few of the woodcuts
are all I've found so far.

Raisya

Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 02:33:48 +0100
From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
Subject: SC - Altbayrische Kochrezepte ( XV./XVI. cent.)

For those interested in German cookery recipes: you can find the
text of "Alte Kochrezepte aus dem bayrischen Inntal" (15th/16th century;
ed. Danner) on my website:

http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/kb-dann.htm

or via:

http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909
then chose ETEXTE or ALTE KOCHBUECHER in the left frame, then search for
the DANNER-entry in the right frame.

Remember that around 1500 most German texts are written in some sort of
dialect...

Thomas
************
Dr. Thomas Gloning, JLU Giessen
http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909
Rheinfraenkisches Kochbuch (15. Jh.):
http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/rfk.htm

Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:38:59 -0800
From: Maryann Olson <maryann.olson at csun.edu>
Subject: SC - SC German Herbs, Spices, and Ingredients (long)

At 05:15 PM 2/17/99 -0800, Elizabeth/Betty Cook wrote:

>Gertraud  (Maryann Olson) asks:
>...
>>2) I am wondering what herbs and spices would have been used by different
>>personas in a meat pie for instance, that would tell others that they were
>>English, or German, or Italian, or whatever.  Being a German persona, I
want
>>to be able to make something that is truly "German."  However, if I were
to
>>choose to do "Italian," I would want to be true to that culture.
>
>French and English upper-class tend to be very similar, at least around
>14th-15th c. or so; given the history, that isn't surprising. Italian of
>the same period, judging by Platina, is similar but has some noticable
>differences; for example, he likes the combination mint-marjoram-parsley
>which I don't remember seeing in the English/French cuisine. I don't know
>German well enough to comment, but I expect other people on this list do.
>
>Elizabeth/Betty Cook

Greetings, unto thee, Elizabeth, and blessings upon thee for thy kind words
and encouragement.  I went home and pulled together my very rough notes from
Guter Spise and Sabrina Welserin, as well as a modern cookbook.  What
follows is very rough and has not been double-checked.  Please forgive me
for any errors -- and, please, anyone who finds errors, be sure to tell me
what they are so I can correct them.

German Herbs, Spices, and Ingredients

                1345-
Name            1354    1553    Modern Notes

                                Noted:  Food is rarely
                                highly seasoned in
                                Germany.  (Ref. 1, p. xxii)

Almonds           X     X       X
Almond Milk       X     X       X
Sweet Almond Oil        X
Anise             X     X       X
Apples            X     X       X
Basil                           Used in Bavaria; however,
                                pepper is not used when
                                basil is.(1)
Bay Leaves                      X
Borage                  X
Caraway         X       X
Caraway Seeds           X       X
Cardamom                        X
Carrots         X               X
Chard           X
Cheese          X
  Parmesan              X
Cherries        X       X       X
  Sour & Sweet  X       X       X
Cinnamon        X       X
Cloves  X       X       X
Cornflowers             X
Costmary                X
Datesd
                X
Dill                    X
Eggs            X       X
Elacampine              X
Elderflowers            X
Figs            X
Fresh Herbs             X
Galingale       X
Garlic          X               Used sparingly, mainly in the
                                eastern regions.  The rest of
                                Germany may use it with mutton
                                and lamb and in sausages and
                                salamis. (1)
Ginger                  X
Ginger Root     X       X       X
Grapes          X       X       X
Grape Leaves            X
Ground Ivy              X
Hops            X
Hyssop          X
Juniper Berries         X       Used in Swabia; otherwise
                                used in game dishes all
                                over Germany (1)
Kohlrabi                        X
Lavender                X
Leeks           X               X
Lemons          X       X
Lettuce                 X
Limes           X       X
Preserved Limes         X
Lovage                  X
Mace            X       X       X
Marjoram                X       Mainly in Bavaria (1)
Mint                    X       X
Mushrooms -
  Chanterelle           X
Mustard         X       X       X
Nettles                 X
Nutmeg                  X       X
Onions                  X       X
Oranges Bitter          X
  Orange Peel           X
Paprika                 X       Used in Bavaria and Prussia (1)
Parsley         X       X       X
Pears/Preserves X       X       X
Peas            X       X
Pennyroyal      X
Pepper          X       X       Pepper is used with
                                restraint.  White pepper
                                is preferred because it
                                is milder.  (1)
Peppercorns             X
Plums           X       X       X
Quinces         X       X
Raisins/
  Currants      X       X       X
Rosemary                X       Used with lamb and mutton
                                almost exclusively (1)
Saffron         X       X
Sage            X       X       X
Salt                    X       X
Savory                          X
Shallots        X
Spinach                 X
Strawberries            X       X
Tansy           X
Tarragon                        X
Tartar                  X
Thyme                           Used mostly in Bavaria
                                and East Germany (1)
Tragacanth              X

Pot Vegetables                  Carrot, parsley root, parsnip,
  Root Vegetables                 leek, celeriac, onion,
                                  sometimes white turnip
                                  Turnip is root vegetable most
                                  often eliminated, because
                                  it is too strong. (1)
Soup Greens                     Parsley, celery leaves,
                                  with dill added after
                                  cooking is finished (1)

Capon                   X
Chicken         X       X       X
  w/out bacon           X
Goose           X       X       X
Goose blood             X
Goose feet              X
Goose wings             X
Goose stomach           X
Goose neck              X
Goose liver             X
Quail                   X
Small Birds             X
Small wild Birds        X

Bacon           X       X       X
Beef            X       X
Beef Marrow             X
Boar's Head             X
Calf Liver      X       X       X
Hare            X       X
Hare Blood              X
Lamb            X       X       X
Lamb liver      X       X
Lamb caul       X       X
Pork            X       X       X
Pork liver      X       X       X
Pork lungs      X       X
Veal                    X       X
Venison/Deer    X       X       X
Wild Game               X       X

Tongue                  X       X
Brain           X       X       X
Kidney Suet             X

Bream                   X
Carp                    X
Cod/Dried               X
Crayfish                X
Eel             X       X
Fish            X       X       X
Lamprey         X
Oysters                 X
Pike            X       X
Selbingen               X
Trout                   X

Fats                            Pork lard, bacon, butter.
                                  In northern Germany and
                                  Swabia, rendered chicken,
                                   goose, and duck fats are
                                  also used. (1)
Olive Oil               X       Seldom used; considered exotic (1)

Butter                  X       X
Cream                   X       X
Milk                    X       X
Goat Milk       X

Honey           X       X
Sugar           X       X       X
Rose Sugar              X

Rose Water      X       X       X
Wine                    X       X
Verjuice                X
Vinegar                         Unless otherwise stated,
                                white vinegar is used. (1)

Millet Groats   X
Flour           X       X
Rye Flour               X       X
Bread Crumbs            X       X
Semmel                  X       X
Rye Bread               X       X
Rice            X       X       X

Ashes                   X
Caustic Lime            X
Hartshorn                       X
Isinglass               X

1345-1354:  Daz Buoch von Guter Spise, the Household Manual of Michael de
Leone, proto-notary to the Archbishop of Wuerzburg, translated by Alia Atlas

1553:   Sabrina Welserin (also translated on-line by Alia Atlas, I think,
but I can't find confirmation in my copy)

(1)     Mimi Sheraton, The German Cookbook, "The German Kitchen"

Compiling this table made me aware of how rough the work is and in need of
being double-checked.

Gertraud

Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:28:36 -0800
From: varmstro at zipcon.net (Valoise Armstrong)
Subject: Re: SC - SC German Herbs, Spices, and Ingredients (long)

Gertraud  (Maryann Olson) wrote:
>1553:  Sabrina Welserin (also translated on-line by Alia Atlas, I think,
>but I can't find confirmation in my copy)

No, actually that translation is mine.

There is a really good chart on German medieval and renaissance spices,
taken from 7 books ranging from 1350-1581, at:
http://www.silk.net/sirene/medgerm.htm

Valoise Adalhaid von Metz
(Valoise Armstrong)

Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:33:46 -0800
From: varmstro at zipcon.net (Valoise Armstrong)
Subject: SC - German cookbook list

A day off of work and I decided to do a little web searching. I wanted to
check out the new Altbayrische Kochrezepte that Thomas Gloning had posted.
Great stuff! Another book for my collection.

I found out that he has also added a VERY lengthy list of German cookbooks,
arranged chronologically, to his web page. Absolutely wonderful.
Unfortunately many of these are going to be impossible to find, or at least
very difficult, for those of us in the wester hemisphere. But this is a
really nice list.

Valoise

Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:59:09 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - SC German Herbs, Spices, and Ingredients (long)

Valoise Armstrong wrote:
> Gertraud  (Maryann Olson) wrote:
> >1553:  Sabrina Welserin (also translated on-line by Alia Atlas, I think,
> >but I can't find confirmation in my copy)
>
> No, actually that translation is mine.
>
> There is a really good chart on German medieval and renaissance spices,
> taken from 7 books ranging from 1350-1581, at:
> http://www.silk.net/sirene/medgerm.htm
>
> Valoise Adalhaid von Metz
> (Valoise Armstrong)

FWIW, I'm fairly certain Caterina Sichlingen Von Nurnburg (Alia Atlas)
has been working on a translation of Sabina Welserin for some time now,
with several other German sources more or less simultaneously, and the
possibility does exist that some of her work on the source is available
on the Web. It's hard to say, in this instance, which version Gertraud
was looking at, at least from what I saw mentioned on the cooks' list.
Caterina's material on the Web has been moving around from site to site,
and doesn't seem to stay at one URL for very long, so it can be hard to
find, which might make Valoise's translation a more likely candidate.

Adamantius

Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:08:52 -0800
From: varmstro at zipcon.net (Valoise Armstrong)
Subject: Re: SC - SC German Herbs, Spices, and Ingredients (long)

>Sabrina Welserin.  Do you know which area of
>Germany she came from?  Since German cooking has regional differences today,
>I suspect it had them in period also.

The Welser family was prominent in Augsburg, that's in Swabia, a southern
part of Germany near Bavaria. It's hard to say anything definite about
differences in German cookbooks from different regions without more
evidence. Most of what I've seen is from southern Germany, including two
from the same family (the Welsers).

It's hard compare cookbooks from different centuries and say whether the
differences were due more to the time in which they were written or where
the author lived. All I can say is that I need more cookbooks and more time
to study them.

Valoise

Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:57:45 +0100
From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
Subject: SC - Marx Rumpolt (1581) -- soup recipes

You can find the soup recipes from the cookbook of Marx Rumpolt (1581)
via:

http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/kobu.htm

or at:

http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/rumpsupp.htm

The language of the recipes is Early New High German.

Thomas

PS.: There is an announcment of a new edition of three 15th century
German cookery books, now in the "Oesterreichische Nationalbibliothek"
in Vienna. As far as I am aware, the book is to appear end of april:

Doris Aichholzer: 'Willdu machen ayn guet essen...' Drei
mittelhochdeutsche Kochbücher: Erstedition, Übersetzung, Kommentar,
(Wiener Arbeiten zur Germanischen Altertumskunde und Philologie Bd. 35),
Bern, Berlin, Frankfurt/M., New York, Paris, Wien 1999, ca. 450 S.

Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:32:56 -0700 (MST)
From: grasse at mscd.edu
Subject: SC - Marx Rumpolt 

also I was thrilled when I received a copy of Marx Rumpolt (the mid 70'sfacsimile) as a gift.  I have used some of the recipes in an A&S entry, and have webbed my entry documentation - including original recipe, translation, and redaction, along with pictures.  I plan to post other recipes from this wonderful (late period) source, as well as other entries and things I have done. The web site started as a homework assignment in my web-pagedesign course.  Feedback (preferably constructive - I'm still new at this
web thing) would be welcomed.http://clem.mscd.edu/~grasse/Welcome.html The Rumpolt recipes are   "Selections from a German Meal ca 1581"Gwen-CatCaerthe

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:50:26 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - German potato soup recipe???

> Well, this is interesting. Has anyone seen a copy of the Anna Weckerin
> cookbook? I believe she was the widow of a doctor and it's supposed to
> also> have a lot of medical advice. It wasn't, by the way, the first cookbook
> written by a woman, but I believe it was the first published German
> cookbook written by a woman. Anyone know of a reprint edition of this
> book?
> I've never been able to find one.
>
> Valoise

There is a translation of Weckerin by Regina and John Bendix, but I don't think it is published.  I came across a reference to it in an acknowledgement by Janet Theophano, an Associate Director of the College of General Studies, University of Pennsylvania.the information was part of an exhibition website for the Aresty Collection of Rare Books in the Culinary Arts, Dept. of Special Collections, Van Pelt Library, University of Pennsylvania. 

This is the same Aresty who authored The Delectable Past.  If you want to check out the website, the URL is:http://www.library.upenn.edu/special/gallery/aresty/aresty1.htmlBear

Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 02:11:37 +0100
From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
Subject: SC - Re: Anna Weckerin

Anna Weckerin was the widow of Johann Jacob Wecker, a medical doctor in
Basel and Colmar, who wrote widely on dietetics, wines etc. and who
translated the "Kunstbuch" of Alexius Pedemontanus.

>> Anyone know of a reprint edition of this book?

There was a limited facsimile-edition of the Weckerin cookbook in 1977:

Ein Koestlich new Kochbuch Von allerhand Speisen/ an Gemuesen/ Obs/
Fleisch/ Gefluegel/ (...) durch F. Anna Weckerin/ Weyland Herrn D.
Johann Jacob Weckers (...) nachgelassene Wittib. Amberg 1598.
Vol. 1: Facsimile. Vol. 2 (a small booklet): "Kommentar von Julius
Arndt". München 1977.

There were printed 1000 copies. Now and then an antiquarian copy shows
up.

Here is a funny recipe for "shavings" or "chippings" made from almonds:

"Hobelspa:en.
BEreit klein gestossene Mandeln mit Zucker vnnd
Rosenwasser/ streich es auff Oflatten du:enn/ schneid es darnach
mit einer scheer zu langen schmalen riemlein auff eine
stu:ertz/ bach es inn der pastetenpfann oder bachofen/ so kru:emmen sie
sich/ sind auch scho:en vnnd gut/ sie sollen weiss bleiben." (p. 64).
(a:e = e above a ~ a with Umlaut; etc.)

Anybody willing to transcribe this <font size="128">most
important</font> text?

Thomasius Tuwingensis

Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:20:41 -0700 (MST)
From: grasse at mscd.edu
Subject: SC - re: Marx Rumpolt was re: 16th century potato soup recipe?

Thomas Gloning wrote:
[BTW, I am beginning to transcribe Rumpolt, and maybe in some months or years we can search this text. Anybody working on the same project, please drop me a line.]While I can not claim such wonderful credentials as your own (as seen on your web site - wow) I am a native speaker and a cook, and have been cooking in the SCA since 1992. I received a copy (IIRC the 1976 facsimile reprint out of Leipzig) of Ein New Kochbuch in December.  Since then I have spent a little time reading, transliterating, translating, and redacting from that source.  I have webbed part of what I have translated at http://clem.mscd.edu/~grasse/GKContents1.htm

(look at Selections from a German Meal)and am working on more.  If anyone is looking for a specific type of recipe I will (as time permits) look through Rumpolt's work to see if I spot anything related, and will transliterate, translate, and post. I have very much enjoyed your web pages, and your transliteration of the soup recipes.

Gwen Cat von Berlin Caerthe

Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:03:26 +0200
From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
Subject: SC - Translation (was: Pennsic Cookery Class Suggestions)

Thanks, Lord Frederich Holstein der Tollhase, for stressing the
importance of accurate translation. Of course, the process of
"redaction" seems more important and requires an experienced cook, but
if the translation is not accurate, the redaction will in any case not
be the redaction of that historical recipe.

Alas, we cannot assume that within 500 years meanings have not changed
drastically. They often have. Therefore, we must not use modern
dictionaries for our translations, but dictionaries that cover the usage
of say 15th and 16th century texts.

Here is a historical German dictionary in one volume that might be
helpful for someone working with 15th and 16th century German recipes
(most German culinary sources are 15th century onwards):

Christa Baufeld: Kleines fru"hneuhochdeutsches Wo"rterbuch. Lexik aus
Dichtung und Fachliteratur des Fru"hneuhochdeutschen. Tu"bingen 1996.
ISBN: 3-484-10268-3 (about 30 DM, ~ 15 or 20 $ or so; u" = u-Umlaut
etc.).

Thomas

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:16:13 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC -beef stew, was  period fruit pastries

> In regard to fruit in pastry, you are most likely to find that in the
> German corpus, under 'pasteten'.  Bear suggests 'kraphen', but that might
> be a doughnut type thing, or even fried pie, depending on where and when.
>  Pasteten sometimes is fairly clearly a pie/tart, but may have been
> individual, as well.  Generally means 'pastry'.
>
> Allison

Modern krapfen are Berliner's, deep fat fried jelly-filled doughnuts.

Period krapfen are more eclectic having meat, fish and fruit fillings.  The
doughs are both leavened and unleavened.  One set of instructions I've found
bakes them in oil.  I suspect (but can not prove) they are closer to a pasty
than a doughnut.  From the lack of instructions, you might even produce a
covered tart (which I believe Alia Atlas did).

I've recently started researching krapfen.   As a spur to my research, I've
offered to teach a hand's on class in krapfen making at the Ansteorran
King's College, So I'll be experimenting during May.  I'll post the handout
after I get it worked up.

Bear

Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 02:27:08 -0500
From: LYN M PARKINSON <allilyn at juno.com>
Subject: Re: SC -krapfen, was (still sorta is)  period fruit pastries, long

The _Mittelhochdeutsches Taschenwoerterbuch_ lists: 2 meanings for
krapfe.  1] swm,. md. krape [in italics] haken, , klammer; tuerangel; in
der wappenkunde: sparren.   (Valoise or Gwen-Cat will have to translate
that exactly)
2] krapfe swm., krapfen; hode.
krapfen swv. haken.

Some of those words translate to modern English as closure or clasp, in
my German/English dictionary.  I don't have a problem with seeing a
turnover as a result of this.  My 1709 book that is the publication of a
16thC. manuscript lists recipes for kraffen under "All sorts of bake
work".  Some are baked in lard, they have fillings, or nuts stirred into
the batter.  The double ff is always present, sometimes p is also:
kraffen, and krapffen.  I think, that translating 'bake in grease/lard'
to frying or deep-fat frying, is what is meant.  Maybe.  Sometimes.

Comparing the English and German copies of _The Medieval Kitchen_ is
interesting.  Recipe 125, in English, is Marrow Fritters.  In German,
Krapfen mit Mark.  in this case, the marrow is bone marrow, not a
vegetable called a marrow. Recipe 129 is The Emperor's Fritters, and 
Kaiserkrapfen.  Recipe 128 is for Fruit Patties, Fruechtepastetchen, 
Rissoles aux Fruits, but the phrase Kleine Krapfen is used.  Plus more.

So, the German translator of the French modern book uses the word krapfen
to describe both fruit filled pastries--little rounds of dough with fruit
filling inside, and fruit stirred into batter.  The French authors would
recognize Anne-Marie's krapfen, presumably.

My modern German cook books don't use the term in the index, except for
one on baking.  THAT GIVES A RECIPE FOR (the books are holding down the
shift key) Andalusische Krapfen.  The beautiful picture has half-moon
shaped pastries, covered with sesame seeds.  The filling is 1 small
onion, 150 g. chopped beef, salt, pepper, 1 teaspoon marjoram, 1-2
tablespoons olive oil, 1 tablespoon tomato ketchup, 10 pimento filled
olives.  The picture of the filling looks like rather dry Sloppy Joes
with sliced olives.  The filled pies/pastries/turnovers/krapfen are
brushed with milk and egg yolk, salt and sesame seed.  They are not deep
fried, though.  You put them in a greased baking pn and bake in a
pre-heated oven 15-20 minutes at 220* C.   Serve warm.  This definately a
savory and not a sweet.

Other pictures and recipes use other terms--Oh Boy!  Just found a
glossary in one that I didn't know I had!  Will have to check and see if
all the words are in the glossary I sent Gwen-Cat and Valoise, except
this is modern.--Added a few.
buben -  prune fritters are Schlosserbuben; have 2 recipes for this,
prunes stuffed with almonds and         dipped in batter, deep-fried.
Probably Swabian.
kuechel - fritter batter is Kuechelteig; apple fritters is Apfelkuechel
(Using an e in place of the umlaut in   ku [umlaut] chel).  Also
kuechlein (little kuechel) A deep-fried apple pastry
pasteten - Koeniginpasteten are queen's pastry, or puff pastry patties.

The vocabulary is probably a local thing, or tradition, or it's just
changed over the years.  Kuechelin also is Swabian.  I'll have to check
more regional recipes.

Conclusion:
Krapfen: A fritter or a small turnover type, that is either fried or
baked, in lard.

Regards,

Allison
allilyn at juno.com, Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands, Pittsburgh, PA
Kingdom of Aethelmearc

Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 05:45:53 -0700
From: varmstro at zipcon.net (Valoise Armstrong)
Subject: Re:SC - krapen baked in oil

The German word backen can mean to fry or to bake. This makes translating
recipes rather interesting. Is this thing going to go in the oven or is it
going to be fried? The phrase "baked in oil" would seem to mean to fry. If
it's not clear, look at the context of the recipe.

Valoise

Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:11:06 -0600 (MDT)
From: grasse at mscd.edu
Subject: Re: SC - krapfen baked in oil

Bear and Phlip,
You wrote privately, but seeing the Krapfen thread has grown I guess I will
post this to the whole crew.

I speak only for MODERN recipes with the word Krapfen at this time...  I
went through my German cookgooks last night, and found 3 different entities
being called Krapfen.  Two of them are deep fat fried. "Place fat into a
deep-fryer and fry for 8 minutes at 170 C, turning once half way through
the cooking time, with a slotted spoon."  (Yes in German this is called
ausbacken or backen, but it is deep fat frying.  The Viennese Backha:ndel
is a wonderful deep fried chicken. The phrase Backen also refers to baking
in an oven (I use oven baked to make the difference clear in this post.)  I
do not know how or when this came into being.)

Of the two deep fried versions one uses a pate-choux (sorry, I doubt that
is spelled right... in German the word is Brandteig)  The liquids are
brought to a boil, flour is added all at once, and eggs beating in (one at
a time) till a ball forms.  This is dropped by spoonfuls into the oil.
(this same type of dough can oven baked to make eclairs and creampuffs.)

The second deep fried version is a yeast raised dough (like is used for
Berliner Pfannkuchen -Jelly doughnuts).  The dough is made, raised for 20
minutes, rolled out, cut into rounds, filled with jelly (this book claims
Apricot jelly for southern Germany, and strawberry for northern (like
Berlin), let rise another 15 minutes, and then deep fried in lard at 180C
for 3 minutes covered, then turned and fried 3 minutes uncovered.

The third version of Krapfen seems to be a savory pastie type (with a meat,
mushroom, and curry filling).  The dough is a flour, starch, salt, fat and
cold water type.  This version is oven baked for 20 minutes at "Gas level
4" or at 220C electric.

And just to cloud the issue, the Krapfen mit Ka:se (cheese krapfen) are
creampuff type pastry, BAKED for 25 minutes at 220 C, then filled with a
piped (creamy) Rockford cheese filling.

All these recipes are represented in the book "Menu: Backen von A-Z" by
Mosaik Verlag (publishers), 1986 Munich. (this book lists a number of other
nationalities Krapfens too, but they all fit in the 3 categories, just the
specific ingredients or flavorings change

I also checked "Spezialita:ten aus Grossmutters Zeit" which listed a yeast
raised version in their section on Berlin... I paraphrase because I only
brought the A-Z book to work with me... What in Berlin is called Berliner
Pfannkuchen is the same as what in southern Germany is called Krapfen.  I
believe they filled their version with plum or Preisselbeer jelly.

And I looked in the Dr. O:tker Baking Book I inherited from MY Grandmother.
 This lists "Fettkrapfen" - made with a Brandteig version that is then deep
fat fried.

Here is a bit more than zwei pfennige worth... What else may I do to be of
service?

Gwen-Cat
Caerthe
(PS, please put the F in Krapfen... the other spelling makes my mind do
baaaaad things!)

Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:22:37 -0500
From: LYN M PARKINSON <allilyn at juno.com>
Subject: Re: SC - krapfen baked in oil

>>And just to cloud the issue, the Krapfen mit Ka:se (cheese krapfen) are

creampuff type pastry, BAKED for 25 minutes at 220 C, then filled with a
piped (creamy) Rockford cheese filling.<<

Typographical error, Gwen-Cat, meaning Roquefort as in blue-veined
cheese, or somebody's specialty?

The Andalusian krapfen I posted are the type 3 you mentioned.  Wonder if
this is typical for the savory krapffen, or just co-incidence?

Allison
allilyn at juno.com, Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands, Pittsburgh, PA
Kingdom of Aethelmearc

Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 22:03:37 -0700
From: varmstro at zipcon.net (Valoise Armstrong)
Subject: SC - Re: German Food

>       Is there a reasonably reliable secondary, translated to English, with
>redacted recipes - source that might be in print or available through
>the library?  It often seems when I do web searches that SCA folk's web
>sites are among the best when looking for period stuff, are there any in
>particular that might be helpful here?  I believe I have 'En Guter Spice'
>bookmarked,  and I will check there.

In addition to Ein Buch von guter spise there are these pages:

German Feast Menus and Documentations
This one has translations and redactions from several cookbooks for three
feasts. Done by Mistress Caterina (Alia Atlas).
http://www.cs.bu.edu/students/grads/akatlas/Feasts/contents.html

Das Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin
My translation to this without redactions is at"
http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Cookbooks/Sabrina_Welserin.html

Thomas Gloning has portions of several cookbooks on his site and a few of
them have been translated.
http://www.uni-giessen/de/~g909/kobu.html

14th Century German Meal
I haven't visited this site in a while, don't remember whose it is. There
are redactions from Guter spise (I think that's where they're from.)
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/4756.germ1htm

This might give you a good start. I don't have the url for Gwen Cat's page,
but she also has some redactions.

Valoise

Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 09:35:25 -0400
From: "Kappler, MMC Richard A." <KAPPLERR at swos.navy.mil>
Subject: SC - German Cooking

Mistress Christianna said:
>I have been asked by a lady in our Barony about medieval German food.
>She is getting married in October, and they are doing it up 15th Cent.
>German.  She is having it catered, and needs to be able to provide
>recipies to a (hopefully) willing caterer, yet to be found.
>    Is there a reasonably reliable secondary, translated to English, with
>redacted recipies - source that might be in print or available through
>the library?
<snip>

GERMAN SPECIALTIES; A Culinary Journey
Christine Metzger, Editor
Covers the history of German cuisine in text and thousands of
illustrations including the evolution of the art of cooking, and the
origin, variety, production., and consumption of foods. Includes many
recipes for complete meals. 1997: 680 pages, ca. 3,000 illustrations.

Regards, Puck

Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 23:18:45 +0200
From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
Subject: SC - FYI: German cookbooks: Rumpolt 1581 & Wecker 1598

FYI:

there are currently two 'joint ventures' aiming to produce electronic
texts of important German cookbooks:

- -- Marx Rumpolt 1581: Martina Grasse
- -- Anna Wecker 1598: Valoise Armstrong

These projects are meant to provide a reliable edition of the original
text, in the long run together with translations/redactions of parts of
the text that are noteworthy in some respect. The most important and
laborious part of the work is done by Martina Grasse and Valoise
Armstrong, to whom I should like to thank publicly in the name of
culinary historians and historians of language.

If the readers of the SCA-list don't mind I (the proofreader and
webmaster of the projects) will 'publish' the sections as we go along
and post short notes about our progress now and then.

Thomas

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 01:30:12 +0200
From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
Subject: SC - Middle Low German Recipe + Translation: posteydenlevere / pie liver

Here is an exercise in translating a Middle Low German
recipe from Hans Wiswe's "Ein mittelniederdeutsches Kochbuch
des 15. Jahrhunderts" (edited in: Braunschweigisches
Jahrbuch, 1956).
First, the recipe and a rough translation:

************************
19. Wyltu maken eyne gude posteyden, so nym de levere van
eyneme kalve edder van eyneme bucke unde vorwelle se up
eyner rost ere mate. Snyt se rechte cleyne. Stot se yn
eyneme moser rechte kleyne. Nym eyn luttick honnighes unde
krude. Nym rosin unde twe eygere. Bring dat darmanghen. Unde
bring dat wedder thohope in eyn stucke. Legge dat yn eynen
deghel yn reyne vethe unde kere dat vaken umme. Unde lat dat
backen. So brynghe dat vp eyn speth. Unde dorchdrop du dat
myt ryngheme specke. Bestrowe dat myt honnighe unde myt
krude unde lat dat gar braden. Dat heyt eyn posteydenlevere.
**********************
If you want to make a good pie, take the liver from a calf
or from a buck/ram and bring it to the boil on a roast/grill
according to the size of the liver (?). Then cut it into small
pieces, and pound it quite fine in a mortar. Take a small
quantity of honey and spices, in addition take raisins/plums
and two eggs, and mix it together with the (prepared) liver.
And make it into the form of a single piece (of a liver)
again. Put this piece into a pot with pure/clear fat and
turn the piece often. Let it bake in the pot. Then put it
onto a spit, and let drop lard upon it, that is not too
valuable (?). Sprinkle it with honey and with spices and let
it roast until it is done. This dish is called
"posteydenlevere" [pie liver].
***********

Comments are welcome (ideas about the question mark
passages; similar recipes from other collections;
plausibility of the recipe; things that are not explicitly mentioned in
the recipe but that should be mentioned in the translation; alternative
translations; ...)

Thomas

Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:55:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: SC - spaetzle

- --- Anne-Marie Rousseau <acrouss at gte.net> wrote:
> does this mean someone has a documentably period
> recipe for spaetzle?

Not that I am aware of.  However, there is a German
language book on the history of Spaetzle, that
apparently says that spaetzle comes from 14th century
monks.  I have not seen this book, but have several
cookbooks that refer to this book.  Perhaps Thomas
Gloning can enlighten us as to the truth of this and
the reliability of this book?

Huette

Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:10:52 CEST
From: "Christina van Tets" <cjvt at hotmail.com>
Subject: SC - Spaetzle recipe OOP

The recipe I was taught when living in southern Germany runs as follows:

for four people (if you eat like my lord and not like me)
5 cups white flour (preferably strong)
4 eggs
enough water to make a stirrable dough (but not runny)

Stir it.  When it's all mixed together, beat it until it sparkles (nice
description - the one I was given by the people I lived with).

Wet a cutting board and a knife.  Bundle all the dough onto the board and
put the bowl and spoon to soak immediately.  This stuff sets like concrete.
Scrape in little lines of about 1/4 in thick and maybe 2 in long, into
simmering salted water.  They will sink to the bottom and rise as they are
cooked.  Wet the knife periodically in the cooking water to remove the
clogged bits.  Don't do too many at once (I find half a cup or so is about
right) or they will stick together, and fish them out with a slotted spoon
when they've had a few seconds' floating, otherwise they turn to porridge.
Don't forget to soak the board and knife.

If you make this kind of quantity I find there are always some left over,
and the accepted way in my Schwaebisch household to use them up was either
to heat some broth with herbs and chuck in the Spaetzle at the last minute,
or to smother them with cheese, bacon and anything else you can think of and
put them under the grill.

So does anyone know why they are called Spaetzle, and does it have anything
to do with sparrows (or sparrow droppings, as a former boyfriend once
cheerfully told me)?

Cairistiona

Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 06:26:15 -0700
From: varmstro at zipcon.net (Valoise Armstrong)
Subject: Re: SC - spaetzle

There's a lot of what we consider traditional German dishes in period
cookbooks (bratwurst, lebkuchen, various dumplings, etc) but I've never
seen a spaetzle recipe in a period German cookbook.

Valoise

Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:05:05 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - spaetzle

Considering that spaetzle is a small, cut or sieved drop noodle, the odds
are good that it was done in period.  The problem is a recipe specifically
describing a spaetzle-like pasta has yet to be found.

Ein Buch von Guter Speise appears to avoid dumplings and pasta totally.
Sabina Welserin has three dumpling recipes, two of which are for filled
dumplings.  The third is most interesting as it is a flourless batter recipe
(119).  The recipe says nothing about how the dumplings are to be shaped,
but the description of the dough as a batter suggests that these are drop
dumplings.  This recipe isn't close to spaetzle, but it might make an
interesting substitution.

I don't have my recipes handy, but (IIRC) spaetzle is eggs, flour and a
little salt worked into a soft dough then rolled out and cut into 1/4" x 1
1/2" strips, or more commonly these days, forced through a ricer and cut off
about every 1 1/2".  Cook in boiling water or broth for about 10 minutes or
until they float.

Bear

For the curious, the recipe from Sabina Welserin as translated by Valoise
Armstrong:

119 If you would make boiled dumplings

Then take chard, as much as you like, some sage, marjoram and rosemary, chop
it together, also put grated cheese into it and beat eggs therein until you
think that it is right. Take also cinnamon, cloves, pepper and raisins and
put them into the dumpling batter. Let the dumplings cook, as one cooks a
hard-boiled egg, then they are ready.

Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:27:00 -0700
From: varmstro at zipcon.net (Valoise Armstrong)
Subject: Re: SC - spaetzle

Bear wrote:
>Sabina Welserin has three dumpling recipes, two of which are for filled
>dumplings.  The third is most interesting as it is a flourless batter recipe
>(119).  The recipe says nothing about how the dumplings are to be shaped,
>but the description of the dough as a batter suggests that these are drop
>dumplings.  This recipe isn't close to spaetzle, but it might make an
>interesting substitution.

I've always wondered if Sabina Welserin didn't just inadvertently leave the
flour out of this recipe, I'm not sure I've ever heard of German dumpligs
(generally called Knoedel or Klosse) without flour or bread crumbs of cubed
bread or something of the sort to hold them together.

Knoedel were known fairly early. There's a picture from a 12th C. fresco in
South Tyrol showing a person making the dumplings. I saw it several years
ago when I was in Austria in Franz Maier-Bruck's Das Grosse Sacher
Kochbuch. I really, really wish that I'd photocopied that page.

Valoise

>119 If you would make boiled dumplings
>
>Then take chard, as much as you like, some sage, marjoram and rosemary, chop
>it together, also put grated cheese into it and beat eggs therein until you
>think that it is right. Take also cinnamon, cloves, pepper and raisins and
>put them into the dumpling batter. Let the dumplings cook, as one cooks a
>hard-boiled egg, then they are ready.

Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:38:19 EDT
From: Korrin S DaArdain <korrin.daardain at juno.com>
Subject: RE: SC - Spaetzle (Recipe Modern)

Stefan, here is a recipe that my mother has used for years.

Spaetzle - Modern.

3 cups flour
Pinch of salt
2 beaten eggs
1 cup water
Stir everything together and use in a potato ricer if it is thinner or a
cheese grater spaetzle machine if thicker, or thicker yet you can cut it
up into small dumplings. Add or remove water to make it thicker or
thinner. Boil in water like pasta until it floats, skim out and repeat
for the rest of the batter. Cooking only takes a couple of minutes. Serve
with butter and salt as desired.

Korrin S. DaArdain
Kitchen Steward of Household Port Karr
Kingdom of An Tir in the Society for Creative Anachronism.

Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 00:01:29 +0100
From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
Subject: SC - Middle Low German Cookery book online

For the happy few willing and able to read Middle Low German: the text
of Wiswe's edition is now online at

http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/mndk.htm
or via:
http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909 (choose 'Alte Kochbuecher')

Recipe #39 is a castle made from pounded peas (perhaps I will try and
give a translation later; if anybody else wants to, go ahead).

Grewe said that the recipes no. 56 to 71 belong to the
Harpestraeng-tradition, didn't he?

If you find any bugs, esp. on the last pages, where I was a !very! tired
proofreader, please, let me know.

Thomas

Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 16:49:50 +0100
From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
Subject: SC - Middle Low German Cookery book

Rhiannon asked about the Middle Low German Cookery book and about Wiswe
("When does this date from?  And who is Wiswe?").

THe Middle Low German Cookery book is contained in a 15th century
manuscript now in the Herzog August-Bibliothek, Wolfenbuettel. It is
important because most of the manuscripts with German cooking recipes up
to 1500 (there are about 50 such manuscripts) are in the High German
dialect, then spoken and written in the middle and southern parts of
Germany. One section of these recipes resembles closely to some of the
Harpestraeng-recipes (13. century), Nanna mentioned earlier.

Hans Wiswe is the editor of this cookery book. He published it in 1956
in the 'Braunschweigisches Jahrbuch' together with a short introduction
and a valuable glossary. Two years later he published a 'Nachlese', some
additional comments on this text. Wiswe was an outstanding expert on
German cookbooks. His 'Kulturgeschichte der Kochkunst' (1970) might give
you some idea. I am very glad to have some books, that he owned, in my
library now.

Thomas

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:39:43 -0500
From: "Michael F. Gunter" <michael.gunter at fnc.fujitsu.com>
Subject: SC - A Castle made of peas (From MndK; 15th C.)

Here is a first attempt to translate #39 from the Middle Low German
Cookbook. (As you may see, there are some problems left.)

[MndK #39] Furthermore: if you want to make something from the mentioned
peas, that looks like a castle, the longer you pound the peas, the
better they will be (for that purpose). Sweeten it slightly with dry
sugar. Make from the (paste of) peas (something that looks like) a
sauce-dish, so that it is a hand's breadth/length high and a hand's
breadth/length wide. Put it into a dish that is like a stewpan [or: into
an adequate dish/ a dish made of dough?]. Put two crosses at the
outside, such that every cross is a short span long (for the cross-beam)

and one hand's breadth/length high. And surround it -- from the same
paste of peas too -- with a wall, that shall be also one hand's
breadth/lenght high. Then make small cones from the said peas. They
shall be the towers, how much of them you like. Put them onto the wall
all around. Take a good and adequate <...> and pour it into the
sauce-dish. And serve it forth together with fried/baked/roasted
herring.

Some Notes:
- -- The preparation of the peas is described in recipes #35 and
(possibly) #38. The peas must be given into a boiling ash-lye and then
washed in fresh water untill they loose their shells/husks. Then they
are boiled, dried and pounded in a mortar. In #38 they are also mixed
with honey and strained through.
- -- According to Wiswe, there seems to be a lacuna at the end of the
recipe, so we do not know what to give into the sauce-dish.
- -- There is another recipe that mentions a _$B!)_(Jorch_$B!)_(J a castle
(#77).

If anybody knows of similar recipes from other collections, please, let
me know.

Thomas

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:05:20 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast)

> hey all from Anne-Marie
> isnt there a German medieval recipe for beets ("ein condimente" comes to
> mind)?

George Fugger's recipe for smoked tongue found in Sabina Welserin uses red
beet root as part of the pickling process, before smoking the tongue.  So it
wouldn't surprise me to find it used in other late German recipes.

Bear

Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:23:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - potatoes

> I have been told by several different people that potatoes are not period,
> but if latkes are period, how can potatoes not be? The Jews have been eating
> them for centuries and they (the Jews) were in all countries. I would really
> like some clarification. Thanks!

I don't know about latkes, but I found the following reference in a
cookbook called Green on Greens : Ein NeuKochbuch (A NewCookbook),
compiled and printed on Gutenberg's press in 1581, contains the first
annotated German recipes; and there are a dozen potato dishes listed
among them. One, suprisingly enough, is a very tasty baked tart.

toodles, margaret

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 00:04:05 +0100
From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
Subject: SC - Question about cassoulet and recipe / Olla podrida

<< There is a late period Spanish recipe (1599) for Olla Podrida, a
stew/casserole containing many different meats, sausage, root
vegetables, and beans.  I'll try to get a translation posted soon.
   If you're willing to go a little bit post-period, it seems likely
that there might be a similar dish in 17th century French cuisine, but I
am not familiar with those sources. >>

There are recipes for Olla potrida in the German cookbooks of Marx
Rumpolt (1581; "Hollopotrida") and Franz de Rontzier (1598; "alle
Patryden", "Holipotriden von mancherley Fischen").

Rumpolts version has 90 ingredients, the recipe is 4 1/2 pages long and
I won't bother you with that, it takes two or three days to prepare it
("der mu? es zween oder drey Tage zuvor anfahen"), but it is good "f¸r
Kˆnig vnd Keyser/ f¸r F¸rsten vnd Herrn zu geben" (for high and highest
noblemen).

Another recipe you might want to look at are the two "H¸dsputt"-recipes
in Rumpolt; Rumpolt says that it is Dutch, and my modern Dutch-German
dictionary says that "hutspot" is a Dutch "Nationalgericht" ('national
dish'):

"59. Nimm die K‰lbern Knorren/ vberquell vnd 
seuber sie fein sauber au?/ vnd nimm darzu 
Hammelfleisch/ vnd ein wenig Rindtfleisch/ vnd la? ein 
jeglichs besonder an die statt sieden/ vnd wenn es 
verrichtet/ so nimm gelbe R¸ben/ schabs/ vnnd 
schneidt ein jede R¸ben zu vier st¸cken/ Nimm 
auch ein Pastenac Wurtzel/ ist sie dick/ so schneidt 
sie auch zu vier st¸cken/ vnnd grosse WasserR¸ben 
schneidt auch zu vier theilen/ auch kleine lenglichte 
StickelR¸ben/ quell ein jegliches besonders in einem 
Wasser/ vnnd wenn es gequellt ist/ so k¸l es au?/ 
nimm die R¸ben/ thu sie vnter dz dreyerley 
Fleisch/ vnd gie? dar¸ber Rindtfleischbr¸h/ die 
nicht fei?t ist/ hack es mit gr¸nen wolschmeckenden 
Kr‰utern/ vnd schneidt ein wenig Zwibeln darvnter/ 
Auch ein Weck/ der fein geweicht/ vnd au? dem Wasser 
wol au?gedruckt ist/ hack das alles 
durcheinander/ vnd auch ein wenig Knobloch/ ein Zehe 
oder zwo/ vnd wenn es durcheinander gehackt ist/ so 
thu es vnter dz Fleisch/ mach es mit eim Gew¸rtz ab/ 
mit gantzem Pfeffer/ gestossenem Pfeffer vnd Jngwer/ 
machs gelb mit Saffran/ vnd la? das alles miteinander 
sieden/ vnnd schaw/ da? du es nicht versaltzest/ so 
wirt es lieblich vnd gut. Darumb hastu das Brot 
darvnter gehackt/ da? du kein Mehl darein darffst 
eynbrennen/ so wirt die Br¸h fein dick vnd 
wolgeschmack davon. Vnd diese Spei? nennet man 
H¸dsputt/ vnd ist ein Niderlendisch essen." (Rumpolt 1581,
fol. 23b-24a)

The second version is quite similar but has this addition:

"(...) Vnd diese Spei? nennet man auff Niderlendisch 
Hudspudt. Du magst auch wol ein str‰uchlein oder 
zwey Rosemarein darein thun/ da? ein lieblichen 
geschmack gibt/ wenns auffgesotten hat/ so thut man 
die Rosemarein wider herau?/ so wirt es gut vnd 
wolgeschmack." (Rumpolt 1581, fol. 140a). 

Gwen Cat works on an English translation of Rumpolt's H¸dsputt-recipe.

The 'Ouverture de cuisine' de Lancelot de Casteau (1604) has also a
recipe "Pour faire vn pot pourry dict en Espaignolle Oylla podrida"
(101-105) and three recipes for "heuspot".

Wiswe in his 'Kulturgeschichte der Kochkunst' says: "'Olla potrida' ...
wurde in ganz Europa verbreitet" (Olla potrida spread from Spain all
over Europe), e.g. by pilgrims visiting Santiago de Compostela. Wiswe
always writes _potrida_, not _podrida_ ...

- -- Why is this dish called "podrida"? There is nothing rotten in it?!
- -- What do the huge historical dictionaries of the French language say
sub verbo "cassoulet"? Which sources are mentioned there?

Cheers,
Thomas

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:49:02 -0800
From: "Mary Mumley" <anjuli at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Olla podrida

From: "Thomas Gloning" <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
> -- Why is this dish called "podrida"? There is nothing rotten in it?!

According to an English-language cookbook published in Spain, "The Cooking
of Spain" says olla podrida (p. 129):  "Literally translated as the "rotten
pot, " it might have been so-called because the ingredients were allowed to
cook to nearly a mush.  At first it was a dish of the upper classes and
might have contained chicken, beef, mutton, bacon, doves, partridge, pork
loin, sausages, beef and pork tongues, cabbages, turnips and other
vegetables.   The garbanzo (chickpea) was added early on and remains today a
standard ingredient.  In the 18th century, the potato arrived from the New
World and got thrown into the pot too.  With the accession of the Bourbons
to the Spanish throne, olla podrida disappeared from aristocratic homes and
passed on to the bourgeois and lower classes.  It was much simplified in the
process ..."

Alessandra di Firenze
Barony of Ponte Alto

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 02:34:56 +0100
From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
Subject: SC - Olla podrida

Thanks a lot, Alessandra di Firenze, for the quotation.

I must confess, that the quoted explanation, "it might have been
so-called because the ingredients were allowed to cook to nearly a mush"
doesn't really convince me. At least in the Rumpolt recipe, much of the
two- or three-days work consists in pre-cooking the different
ingredients to a certain degree, so that everything is _right_ when
finally cooked together with the other stuff in one pot. Rumpolt finally
says:

"... vnnd schaw/ da? du es nicht versieden le?t/ da? du ein jeglich
st¸ck auff ein sch¸ssel besonder kanst anrichten. Denn solche Spei? kan
man nicht lang sieden/ weil sie vorhin fast gar ist" (139b)
'... and take care that you do not let it boil too much so that you can
serve every piece seperately. The reason: such a dish cannot be boiled
very long because it (the ingredients) is pre-cooked before, so that
everything is almost done (before the final cooking in one pot)'.

Of course, this German recipe(s) might not represent the standard type
of preparation.

In addition, Philippa said:
<< ... if it can be verified as being in period, it really looks like
the only case I've heard of where meats and vegetables (other than a few
herbs) are mixed in a stew type thing >>

The German sources (Rumpolt and de Rontzier) are from 1581 and from
1598; and that suggests that original preparations are still older than
that. Anyway, the German recipes are pre-1600 like the 1599-recipe, Lady
Brighid is translating from Diego Granado. -- The Hudspuedt-recipe from
Rumpolt (of Dutch origin), I sent before, is possibly another case of a
stew type thing with meats and vegetables, you have in mind.

T.

Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 18:08:30 -0500
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: SC - Recipe: Olla Podrida

Here is the translation I promised.  I still don't understand where the 
name comes from.  Though it translates literally as "Rotten Pot", it 
resembles the German recipe that Thomas Gloning quoted in another 
post: the dish is designed so that the various ingredients are cooked to 
the point of doneness and not beyond.  Perhaps the original recipe 
*was* cooked to the point of dissolving, but the cooking style was 
altered over the years as tastes changed?  I have not seen any recipes 
for olla podrida that are older than this one; there are none in de Nola 
(1529), for example.

Source: Diego Granado, _Libro del arte de cozina_ (Spanish, 1599)
Translation: Brighid ni Chiarain (Robin Carroll-Mann)

PARA HAZER VNA OLLA PODRIDA -- To make an olla podrida

Take two pounds of salted hogís throat, and four pounds of de-salted 
shoulder, two snouts, two ears, and four feet of a hog, divided and 
removed the same day, four pounds of wild boar with the fresh 
intestines, two pounds of good sausages, and everything being clean, 
cook it in water without salt.  And in another vessel of copper, or 
earthenware, also cook with water and salt: six pounds of mutton, and 
six pounds of heiferís kidneys, and six pounds of fat beef, and two 
capons or two hens, and four fat domestic pigeons.  And of all these 
things, those which are cooked first should be removed from the broth 
before they come apart, and be kept in a vessel, and in another vessel 
of earthenware or of copper, with the aforementioned broth, cook two 
hindquarters of hare, cut in pieces, three partridges, two pheasants, or 
two large fresh wild ducks, twenty thrushes, twenty quails, and three 
francolins.  And everything being cooked, mix the said broths and strain 
them through a hair-sieve, taking care that they should not be too salty.  
Have ready black and white chickpeas which have been soaked, whole 
heads of garlic, divided onions, peeled chestnuts, boiled French beans 
or kidney beans, and cook it all together with the broth, and when the 
legumes are almost cooked, put in white cabbage and cabbage, and 
turnips, and stuffed tripes or sausages.  And when everything is cooked 
before the firmness is undone, taste it repeatedly in regard to the salt, 
and add a little pepper and cinnamon, and then have large plates ready, 
and put some of this mixure upon the plates without broth.  And take all 
the birds divided in four quarters, and the salted meats cut into slices, 
and leave the little birds whole, and distribute them on the plate upon 
the mixture, and upon those put the other mixture with the sliced 
stuffing, and in this manner make three layers.  And take a ladleful of 
the fattest broth, and put it on top, and cover it with another plate, and 
leave it half an hour in a hot place, and serve it hot with sweet spices.  
You can roast some of the said birds after boiling them.

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:40:22 +0100
From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
Subject: SC - Springerle

<< I am looking for the historical background for Springerle cookies. I
have found they had different names for different regions. One such name
is Eierzucker.
I haven't found much besides reference to them being many centuries old.
I would like to make some for an A & S competition. >> 

The "Handwˆrterbuch des deutschen Aberglaubens" ['Concise dictionary of
German folklore and superstition'; concise here means, that there are
only 10 vols.] says that "Springerle" are attested only from the 17th
century onwards. They stand in two historical traditions:

- -- the tradition of "Weihnachtsgeb‰ck" [pastry made for Christmas] with
several possible ritual meanings,
- -- the tradition of the "Gebildbrote" [bread and pastry in a certain
form, e.g. of men, parts of the body, animals, etc.].

Of course both traditions are very much older and are widespread in
different cultures. [There are huge articles on "Weihnachtsgeb‰ck" and
"Gebildbrote" for those who both read German and can locate a copy of
the "Handwˆrterbuch".] -- As far as I can see at present, the etymology
of the word "Springerle" for the cookies is not clear. Apart from the
"Handwˆrterbuch des deutschen Aberglaubens", I looked up the 33-vol.
dictionary of the Grimms, and the 7-volume "Schw‰bisches Wˆrterbuch",
'Dictionary of the Suebian language', which is important because
Springerle are specific for Southern Germany and Austria.

Here is the oldest recipe I have, where "Springerl" (the Austrian form,
"Springerle" is Suebian) are mentioned. It is from 1686; further recipes
are from 1706 and 1764.

"Springerl zu machen.
NJmme ein Pfund Zucker/ sto? und f‰he jhn/ nimb 24. Loth Mehl/ und misch
darunter/ nimb Zimmet/ N‰gl/ Muscatnu?/ und Lemonisch‰ller/ schneids so
klein als du kanst/ misch es auch darunter/ machs an mit Ayrklar/ und
Lemonisafft/ mach den Taig so dick als du kanst/ knˆt jhn wol ab/ walck
jhn au?/ am d¸nsten wie ein Papier/ truck auff einer Seiten den Modl/
la? ein paar Stund stehen/ darnach bachs Semmelbraun/ la? k¸hl werden/
¸berstreichs mit einem Ei?/ leg es wider in die Torten=Pfannen/ da? das
Ei? Blatern gibt/ la? k¸hl werden." (Ein Koch- Und Artzney-Buch 1686,
p.4; the first printed cookbook of Austria)

Roughly: 'To make Springerle
Take a pound of sugar, pound and sieve, take 24. Loth [one Loth is about
18 gramm] of flour, and mix it. Take cinnamon, cloves, nutmeg, and lemon
peels, chop it as fine as you can, and mix it among the other stuff. Add
white of eggs and lemon juice, and make the dough as firm (?) as you
can, knead it well, make it flat as thin as paper, press it into a model
from one side, allow to stand for several hours, then bake it brown like
rolls, let cool off, spread it with icing [frosting?], put it back into
the pan, so that the icing raises blisters. Let cool off.'

Thomas

Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 16:31:47 -0800
From: Valoise Armstrong <varmstro at zipcon.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Sabina Welserin Cookbook

> I have been working on some recipies from the translation of Das Kochbuch der
> Sabina Welserin and was wondering if the original German text was availible
> anywhere.

It isn't online at all, but you should be able to get it without too
much trouble through interlibrary loan. The version that I have is:
Stopp, Hugo, ed. Das Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin. Heidelberg: Carl
Winter Universitatsverlag, 1980.
ISBN: 3-533-02905-0

Valoise

Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:21:59 +0100
From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - Sabina Welser -- online and available in print

I talked to the managing director of Carl Winter Verlag in Heidelberg,
and he gave me permission to web the original text of Sabina Welser. The
text is at:
http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~gloning/sawe.htm

The printed book is still available:

- -- Das Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin. Hg. von Hugo Stopp. Mit einer
‹bersetzung von Ulrike Gieﬂmann. Heidelberg: Universit‰tsverlag Carl
Winter, 1980 (Germanische Bibliothek: N.F.: Reihe 4, Texte). 
ISBN: 3-533-02905-0, DM 20,--.

The printed version contains an additional introduction by the editor
Hugo Stopp and a complete New High German translation by Ulrike
Gieﬂmann. This cookbook is one of the earliest cookbooks written by a
woman and a valuable item for every collection of culinary texts. It is
the only period German cookbook that has been translated into
English/American _completely_ so far. In case you do not read early
German (with some ease), you can use it together with the online
translation of Valoise Armstrong.

Thus, I should like to ask a favor to those of you, who can afford 20
Marks for a German cookbook (I guess 10, 12 or 15 Dollars, depends on
where you live): if you are able to buy the printed book I would be
happy. Many publishers nowadays worry about electronic texts on the web.
However, if there are cases, where an internet version of a text somehow
promotes the printed text, it would be very much easier for (people
like) me to web further texts...

Thomas

Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:10:24 +0100
From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - Sabina Welserin -- ISBN correction

It seems, that the ISBN of the Welserin cookbook in paperback should read:    3-8253-2905-4The other one I gave is that of the cloth edition, which is no longer available. The paperback mentions the ISBN of the cloth edition, but the Winter-catalogue of books available gives the above ISBN...Sigh, Thomas

Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 22:04:08 +0200
From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - Rumpolt woodcuts (was: 90 ingredients ...)

Allison,

<< Gwen-Cat or Thomas, do either of you know when the woodcut was made
and added to Rumpold's book?  Is there evidence that the woodcuts are as
old as the recipes? >>

there are several Rumpolt versions: among the printed versions are
copies from 1581, 1587 and 1604 (Vicaire mentions copies from 1582 and
1586, too), and a manuscript dedication copy to Rudolf II., now in the
÷NB Vienna. We all rely on the 1581 edition, because there is a reprint,
though there are rumors of a potatoe recipe in the 1587 edition...

Now, the woodcuts we have, were printed at the same time with the
recipes, in 1581. A few of them were taken from earlier culinary works,
and a few were repeated in different sections, too. Clearly, there is
some evidence, that Rumpolt had a handwritten collection of recipes
before ("auch etlich Jar ein gewisse Formul bey mir verzeichnet vnnd
beschrieben gehabt"; Vorrede), but we (or at least I) know nothing about
it. Also I do not know whether or not the dedication copy to Rudolf II.
antedates the first printed edition or not. Wiswe says, it is an
"Abschrift". In any case, it would be worthwile to compare the pictures.

So, if anybody comes to Vienna, don't forget to visit the
"÷sterreichische Nationalbibliothek" and call for the dedication copy of
Rumpolt for Rudolf II. ...

Thomas

Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 21:53:24 +0200
From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: Re: SC - M¸nchner Kochbuchhandschriften

<< Does Frau Dr. Ehlert give the manuscripts themselves, hopefully
transcribed into printed characters and modern German as you do with the
RK, or does she talk about these manuscripts?  The second form I could
not read well enough to get the good of it. >>

The book is full of old recipes! It includes facsimiles of the recipes,
transcriptions/editions of the old text, translations into modern
German, an introduction to every manuscript that contains recipes, a
commentary on both culinary and textual matters, some illustrations
(food scenes and others), a glossary and a bibliography.

The manuscripts that contain the recipes are:
- -- Cgm 349 (Cgm = Codex germanicus monacensis; German manuscript now in
Munich)
- -- Cgm 384
- -- Cgm 467
- -- Cgm 725
- -- Cgm 811
- -- Clm 15632 (Clm = Codex latinus monacensis; Latin manuscript now in
Munich; such Latin manuscripts may contain some German material, too).

Another Munich cookery manuscript, the cookery section from the Cgm 415,
was not edited here, because there seems to be an Arabic tradition of
this text, that deserves "eine separate Besch‰ftigung" (a separate
inquiry; p.92).

One of the texts (Cgm 384) has been edited by Birlinger before, but in a
faulty way; thus, there is now a better version that replaces
Birlinger's "Alemannisches B¸chlein von guter Speise", that you already
know.

I am sure, you (and some others) will have fun with this book.

Best,
Thomas

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 18:25:59 +0200
From: "Cindy M. Renfrow" <cindy at thousandeggs.com>
Subject: SC - meat

Hello!  I've just been flipping through "Waste Not, Want Not" and came
across this statement by Jennifer Stead in the chapter 'Necessities and
Luxuries: Food Preservation from the Elizabethan to the Georgian Era', p.
75:

"There was no need [in England] to make a variety of dried sausages as, for
instance, were made in north-west Germany where fresh meat was only eaten
on the four killing days in each year. The British were amply supplied
with, and preferred, fresh meat and fresh sausages..."

Is it true that in north-west Germany fresh meat was only eaten on four
days of the year?  During what time period?  For commoners or nobility, or
both? And why, if fresh meat was only eaten on four days of the year, do we
have so many extant German recipes for fresh meat?  When were these
"killing days"?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Cindy

Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:27:58 +0100
From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - Buch von guter Speise: new edition with English translation

There is a new edition and English translation of the Buch von guter
Speise:

Melitta Weiss Adamson (ed.):
Daz buoch von guoter spise (The Book of Good Food). A Study, Edition,
and English Translation of the Oldest German Cookbook. Krems 2000.
(Medium Aevum quotidianum, Sonderband IX)
ISBN: 3-90 1094 12 1
Price: Austrian Shillings 150,-- plus shipping

The introductory study deals with the owner of the Wuerzburg codex, the
codex itself, the cookbook, the cuisine, and the manuscript tradition of
the recipes. The edition gives not only the text of the Wuerzburg codex,
but also the parallel recipes from a Dessau codex of the 15th century.

In her review of other editions, the author lists numerous errors of the
internet translation of the Buch von guter Speise (p. 50-52) and
concludes:
"Sadly, the two versions of the _Book of Good Food_ which are today most
widely available, are those of the lowest quality. Maurer-Constant's
edition and Alia Atlas' translation on the Internet spread more false
information on the oldest German cookbook than any other edition or
translation published to date" (p. 52).

Th.

Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 16:59:26 -0700
From: Valoise Armstrong <varmstro at zipcon.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Buch von guter Speise: new edition with English translation

> << How much of that is true and how much is it marketing strategy? If
> it's online for free we are less likely to spend money on the new
> volume, so it's worth their while to bash the competition.
> Cynically, Selene >>

When I first started looking for German cookbooks Alia Atlas' translation
was the only one out there. But there are certain deficiencies in the
translation. Anyone remember the leaf of eggs thread that ran not too long
ago? Speaking from experience, translation can almost always use more fine
tuning, I need to take some time and work over Sabina Welserin some day.

Translation of German that old is hard, modern dictionaries are often of no
use and culinary terms are hard to find in the Mittelhochdeutsch
dictionaries. And I've only seen quality stuff from Melitta Weiss Adamson,
so this is bound to be a good addition to the short list of German works in
translation. Besides as Thomas pointed out-----

> You mean, anybody will become rich selling a 14th century German
> cookbook for $ 12 ... ;-|

It's dirt cheap.

Valoise

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 02:41:02 +0100
From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: Re: SC - Buch von guter Speise: new edition with English translation

<< I was annoyed when I read those insulting remarks.  Even if she is
correct about the errors, she could have said something more courteous,
such as: "Although these previous translations are flawed, we are
nevertheless indebted to them for introducing this classic text to
countless readers around the world." >> (Lady Brighid)

Lady Brighid, there is no question here about some errors in a
translation now and then. Obviously, every edition and translation will
contain some errors. Yours (to which I am very much looking forward)
will contain some, mine does contain some errors. That is not the
problem and not a reason to be biased.

However, I see that my quote produced some discomfort. I am sorry about
that. I do not want you to feel discomforted. Thus, I would like to
cancel my previous quote and say:

"The new English translation of the Buch von guter Speise differs
considerably from the one previously published on the web, and I should
like to hear your opinions about the two translations of the Middle High
German text".

Thomas

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 04:05:09 +0100
From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: Re: SC - Buch von guter Speise: new edition with English translation

<< Thomas, How can we here in the States order this edition? It will be
fascinating to sit down and compare them! ... >>

I do not know for sure. The book was published in Austria. I ordered my
copy directly via the eMail:
      imareal at oeaw.ac.at  
the secretary of a division of the Oesterreichische Akademie der
Wissenschaften (Austrian Academy of Sciences), att. Frau Birgit Karl. I
think they can give further information about their payment policy and
shipping costs.

In addition, with the ISBN (3 90 1094 12 1), any international
bookseller should be able to get the book, too.

Recently, I bought a copy of the old 1844 Maurer-Constant edition too
(for historical reasons). But I, for one, am very happy now to have this
new book with the English translation and the edition of the Dessau
manuscript recipes.

Best, Thomas

Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 05:32:58 -0800
From: Valoise Armstrong <varmstro at zipcon.net>
Subject: Re: SC - German feast

> Leanna said:
> > 4.  Third serving: Vision of Sauerbrauten with sauce and buttered noodles,
> > need to research a bit, and would change to roast beef with some period
> > sauce.  Also need a veggie to go with.  3 oz cooked meat, 1/2 cup sauce and
> > 1/2 cup vegetable. 1 cup cooked noodles per serving.

Stefan asked:
> Ok, what is "Saurbrauten"? Is there reason to believe it is period?

There are a lot of regional variations to Sauerbraten, but at its heart it is beef marinated for several days in wine and spices, often juniper berries, then roasted and the pan juices often thickened with gingersnaps (in English-language versions of the recipe) sometimes sour cream is added to the sauce. Sometimes the roast is cooked with raisins.

About twelve years ago I had a laurel that I respected for many other artistic
endeavours say that of course Sauerbraten was period, it was eaten by Charlemagne. There is absolutely no evidence to support that. I did see a completely unsubstantiated claim in an unrelable cookbook to that effect, but nothing more. I also read a claim that Sauerbraten originated in the Pennsylvannia Dutch country of the US and then found its way back to Germany. Once again, completely unsubstantiated.

It has been about  6  years since I last looked at Sauerbraten and tried to document it. I did find marinated meat, juniper berries, and sauces thickened with lebkuchen (which would be a lot like gingersnaps in flavor) but no one recipe that contained all the elements of Sauerbraten. There are a lot more German cookbooks out there now. Anyone seen Sauerbraten?

Thomas, what do the etymological sources say about the word?

Valoise

Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:36:22 +0100
From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: Re: SC - German feast: Sauerbraten

<< what do the etymological sources say about the word? >> [Sauerbraten]

The 'Deutsches Woerterbuch' (and some others) are of not much help in
this case. The first attestation, the DWb gives is a quote from another
dictionary from 1741, later quotes come from Goethe ...

Marperger's 'K¸ch- und Keller-Dictionarium' [1715) has an entry:

"Saur-Braten/ heist ein in Eﬂig eingebeitztes Fleisch/ welches hernach/
wann es etwan noch darzu gespickt/ und mit N‰gelein bestecket worden/
entweder am Spieﬂ gebraten/ oder wie ein Boeuf a la mode gestovet/ und
endlich eine gute Br¸he von Wein und Wein-Eﬂig/ Butter/ Pfeffer/
N‰gelein/ Zimmet/ etwas Zucker und Citronen-Safft dar¸ber gemacht wird".

Will keep my eyes open ...

Th.

Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 15:29:32 -0700 (MST)
From: grasse at mscd.edu (Martina Grasse)
Subject: SC - Cooks 2751

For a quick and dirty (before anyone asks ;-)

"Sour Roast/ is called an in vinegar marinated meat/ which afterwards/
when it is perhaps also larded/ and with cloves studded was/
either roasted on a spit/ of like a Beuf a la mode GESTOVET (cooked?)/ and 
finally a good broth (gravy) of wine and wine vinegar/ butter/ pepper/
cloves/ cinnamon/ a little sugar and lemon juice therover made is".

In Service (and Swamped) to the Dream
Gwen Cat

Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:36:22 +0100
From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: Re: SC - German feast: Sauerbraten

<< what do the etymological sources say about the word? >> [Sauerbraten]

The 'Deutsches Woerterbuch' (and some others) are of not much help in
this case. The first attestation, the DWb gives is a quote from another
dictionary from 1741, later quotes come from Goethe ...

Marperger's 'K¸ch- und Keller-Dictionarium' [1715) has an entry:

"Saur-Braten/ heist ein in Eﬂig eingebeitztes Fleisch/ welches hernach/
wann es etwan noch darzu gespickt/ und mit N‰gelein bestecket worden/
entweder am Spieﬂ gebraten/ oder wie ein Boeuf a la mode gestovet/ und
endlich eine gute Br¸he von Wein und Wein-Eﬂig/ Butter/ Pfeffer/
N‰gelein/ Zimmet/ etwas Zucker und Citronen-Safft dar¸ber gemacht wird".

Will keep my eyes open ...

Th.

Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 09:41:54 -0600
From: "Debra Hense" <DHense at ifmc.org>
Subject: SC - redacting Lebkuchen

I'm trying to redact the following recipe, but I've run into a few little problems. 
I need to know if 16th century german measurements are different from the american ones.  Are the ounce measurements roughly equivelent?  Did they use different quart measurements for wet and dry goods?  IE: the honey v/s the flour?  What about the pounds?  Where do I even begin looking for this type of info?

Also, does this recipe make something more akin to candy suckers than to a cookie?  I'm asking because the flour seems to be so much less than the honey and sugar.

Kateryn de Develyn

>From "Das Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin", 1553. 
163 To make Nurnberger Lebkuchen 

Take one quart of honey, put it into a large pan, skim it well and let it boil a good while. Put one and a half pounds of sugar into it and stir it continually with a wooden spatula and let it cook for a while, as long as one cooks an egg, pour it hot into a quarter pound of flour, stir it around slowly and put the described spices in the dough, stir it around slowly and not too long; take one and a half ounces of cinnamon sticks, one and a half ounces of nutmeg, three fourths of an ounce of cloves, three ounces of ginger, a pinch of mace, and chop or grind each one separately so that they are not too small, the cinnamon sticks, especially, should be coarsely ground. And when you have put the spices in the dough, then let the dough set for as long as one needs to hard boil eggs. Dip the hands in flour and take a small heap of dough, make balls out of it, weigh them so that one is as heavy as the others, roll them out with a rolling pin, and spread them out smoothly by hand, the smoother the prettier. After that dip the mold in rose water and open it up. Take four ounces of dough for one Lebkuchen. Be careful and get no flour in the molds or else they will be no good, but on the board you can put flour so that they do not stick to it. Let them set overnight. And when you take them to the baker, then see to it that you have another board that is thoroughly sprinkled with flour, so that it is very thickly covered. Put the board with its covering of flour into the oven so that the board is completely heated, the hotter the better. Take it out afterwards and lay the Lebkuchen on top, so that none touches the other, put them in the oven, let them bake and look after them frequently. At first they will become soft as fat. If you take hold of them you can feel it well. And when they become entirely dry, then take them out and turn the board around, so that the front part goes into the back of the oven. Let it remain a short while, then take it out. Take a small broom, brush the flour cleanly away from the underside of th
time, on the other board, until you have brushed off the Lebkuchen, one after the other, so that there is no more flour on the bottoms. Afterwards sweep the flour very cleanly from off the board. Lay the Lebkuchen on top of it again, so that the bottom is turned to the top. Take a bath sponge, dip it in rose water, squeeze it out again, wash the flour from the bottoms of the Lebkuchen. Be careful that you do not leave any water on the board, then they would stick to it. Afterwards put the board with the Lebkuchen again in the oven, until the bottoms rise nicely and become hard, then take the board out again. See to it that two or three [people] are by the board, who can quickly turn the Lebkuchen over, or else they will stick. Afterwards take rose water and wash them on top with it as you have done on the underside. Put them in the oven again, let them  become dry, carry them home and move them around on the board, so that they do not stick. And when they have completely cooled, then lay them eight or ten, one upon the other, wrap them in paper and store them in a dry place, see that no draft comes therein, then they remain crisp. 

Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 10:24:17 -0600 
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - redacting Lebkuchen

Yes, 16th Century German measures are different from American Standard.
Prior to the 19th Century (when it was standardized), the pound ranged from
about 454g (roughly equivalent to the English pound of the day) to 500g (the
Viennese pound).  The specific weight depends upon the measure laws in
effect for a given German state at a given time.

I don't have my German copy of Welserin available to check the precise
meaning of quart, but I suspect a volume equivalent to 26 to 32 fluid ounces
of water, depending upon the precise measure used.

I haven't tried this particular recipe, but I understand it more closely
resembles candy than modern lebkuchen.

Bear

> I'm trying to redact the following recipe, but I've run into 
> a few little problems. 
> I need to know if 16th century german measurements are 
> different from the american ones.  Are the ounce measurements 
> roughly equivelent?  Did they use different quart 
> measurements for wet and dry goods?  IE: the honey v/s the 
> flour?  What about the pounds?  Where do I even begin looking 
> for this type of info?
> 
> Also, does this recipe make something more akin to candy 
> suckers than to a cookie?  I'm asking because the flour seems 
> to be so much less than the honey and sugar.
> 
> Kateryn de Develyn
> 
> From "Das Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin", 1553. 
> 163 To make Nurnberger Lebkuchen 
> 
<clipped>

Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 10:54:13 -0700
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 16th c German Recipes Help

Cera Chonaill wrote:
> I'm already thinking about Krautfuter stew since I can document the
> ingredients in period...

Documenting individual ingredients people used is not the same as
having an actual recipe they used, since in the past they didn't
always put ingredients together as people in the same region did in
the 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries.

If you want "period" German food, i suggest looking at historic  
cookbooks.

> Any suggestions for recipes I could consider (please remember we're  
> camping
> with limited tools). The recipes can be in German since I can read the
> language.

You're in luck, as there are six 16th c. German cookbooks on line on
Thomas Gloning's web site, as well as seven from the 14th and 15th
centuries:
http://www.staff.uni-marburg.de/~gloning/kobu.htm

He also has many other books in other languages and from other times.
A real treasure.

-----

Also, i have recipes on-line i made for the German feast i cooked for
the Province of the Mists Boar Hunt in 2001:
http://witch.drak.net/lilinah/2001Menu.html

I wanted to do entirely 16th c. recipes, but in some cases they were
really really vague, whereas the 14th c. recipe for something similar
was more detailed, so i used "Guter Spise".

I confess that in a couple instances i substituted English recipes,
because the German recipes i found were pretty vague, such as for the
green salad.

Ein Buch von Guter Speise, German, 14th c.
In German:
http://www.staff.uni-marburg.de/~gloning/bvgs.htm
A Partial Translation into English by Alia Atlas:
http://cs-people.bu.edu/akatlas/Buch/buch.html

Ein Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin, German, 1553
in German:
http://www.staff.uni-marburg.de/~gloning/sawe.htm

Marx Rumpolt, Ein Neu Kochbuch, German, 1581
This is on Thomas's web site, in numerous parts. Links to each part are  
on:
http://www.staff.uni-marburg.de/~gloning/kobu.htm

MENU

FIRST COURSE
Spiced Dried Green Pea Soup - my peri-oid creation based on German,
English, and French recipes
[the German recipe called for just beer and caraway seeds, which
didn't sound too appetizing to me, so i compared it with recipes from
other places, and made this per-oid, but not period, dish.]
Chicken and Quinces - Ein Buch von Guter Speise
Rice with Cherries - Ein Buch von Guter Speise
Funges - spiced mushrooms in broth - Forme of Curye
[i used this English recipe because after translating a passel of
German mushroom recipes, i found that they basically called for
"grilling" mushrooms in butter and seasoning with salt and pepper,
and i wanted something a little zingier]

SECOND COURSE
- Brawn in Peverade - pork stewed in wine with spices - 15th c. English
- Applemoyes - apples pureed with almond milk and spices - 15th c.  
English
[i used this recipe because a number of German recipes just called
for cooking the fruit in honey, and that was not appealing to me]
- Root Turten - a pie of spiced turnips, parsnips, carrots - Marx  
Rumpolt
- Millet "pone" cooked with almond milk, eggs, bread crumbs, herbs,
saffron, butter - Ein Buch von Guter Speise
[i had intended to prepare this recipe but didn't, i forget why. The
untested recipe is on my website]
- Sallat - mixed greens and fresh herbs dressed with oil and vinegar
- Forme of Curye - there are similar, but vaguer, German recipes

THIRD COURSE
- Roast Pork legs (a Boar Hunt tradition)
- WITH SAUCES
--- Swallenberg Sauce - white wine, honey, ginger, pepper, garlic,
egg whites - Ein Buch von Guter Speise
[my redaction was based on someone's translation, which apparently
was erroneous, so it isn't quite correct. This has been discussed on
this list since]
--- Bitter Seville Orange Sauce with cinnamon, sugar, rosewater - Marx  
Rumpolt
--- Horseradish Sauce with ground almonds and white wine - Ein Buch
von Guter Speise
--- A Sauce for Venison or Pig - white wine, cherry syrup, Lebkuchen
(gingerbread), apples, almonds, spices, currants, raisins, vinegar -
Ein Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin, c. 1553
[i had intended to prepare this recipe but didn't, because someone
didn't pay attention to the quantities called for in the recipe for
Apple Moys and used up all the apples, however i include the recipe
on my web site]

- Beef Tongue with sauce of apples, onions, raisins, and spices -  
Sabina Welser
- Sweet and Savory Spinach - Marx Rumpolt
- Char de Wardons - Sweet and spicy pears puree - 15th C. English
- Lentils with herbs and bacon - Marx Rumpolt

THROUGHOUT THE MEAL
Water
Manchets

RELISHES
- Chopped Lemons & Pomegranate seeds with sugar - Marx Rumpolt, Ein
New Kochbuch, c. 1581
- Beets marinated with horseradish, red wine, cider vinegar,
coriander, caraway, anise - Marx Rumpolt
- Cucumbers fresh pickled in white vinegar, honey, anise, caraway,
pepper, saffron, mustard - Ein Buch von Guter Speise, 14th c.
- Red Cabbage marinated in red wine vinegar, honey, caraway, anise,
pepper - Ein Buch von Guter Speise
- Button Mushrooms pickled in white wine vinegar, whole peppercorns,
cloves, nutmeg, mace, bay leaves, fresh ginger - Lady Elinor
Fettiplace and Sir Kenelm Digbie

FINALE
- Boar's Head Sotiltie: 16th century fruit cake with home made
marzipan, prepared by Dorothea of Caer Myrddin and decorated by
Tristan Halsson fra Ravnborg.

Anahita

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 18:58:58 -0400
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 16th c German Recipes Help

On 14 May 2003, at 10:54, lilinah at earthlink.net wrote:
> Also, i have recipes on-line i made for the German feast i cooked for
> the Province of the Mists Boar Hunt in 2001:
> http://witch.drak.net/lilinah/2001Menu.html
[snip]
> RELISHES
> - Red Cabbage marinated in red wine vinegar, honey, caraway, anise,
> pepper - Ein Buch von Guter Speise
[snip]

I made the red cabbage for Mudthaw dayboard, using your redaction.  It  
Was very tasty.

Brighid ni Chiarain *** mka Robin Carroll-Mann
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:30:43 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Home From Great Western War
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Stefan asked in several separate messages:
>Anahita commented:
>  >-- A Dish of Chicken or Partridge with Quinces or Apples - includes
>>chopped fennel bulb and is topped with a tharid (13th c. Anonymous
>  >Andalusian Cookbook)
>
>What is "tharid"?

<snip – see fd-Mid-East-msg – Stefan>

>Anahita gave one of dishes in the food contest as:
>>-- A Good Food or Hens of Greece - layers of apples, armeritler
>>("French toast"), and shredded chicken (wrapped in bacon and cooked
>>over the wood and charcoal fire), all spiced between each layer,
>>topped with "a leaf of egg", and seasoned with "a condiment" of
>>honey, wine, and spices, then cooked on the fire in a Dutch oven (51.
>>in Das Buch von Guter Spiese)
>
>What is "a leaf of egg"? Fried egg white? Fried egg white and yolk?

 From what i've read about medieval German cuisine, no one is quite 
sure what it is. It could be a thin flat "omelette" (the Japanese 
make these often for rolling things up in), it could be an eggy flour 
dough rolled out like a crust. I really don't know. Because i was 
under pressure to finish, i mixed egg and flour to make a loose dough 
(more egg than flour), then poured it into a frying pan and briefly 
cooked it before topping the layered ingredients with it. It looked a 
little like the German pancakes my mother used to make (which she 
served topped with freshly cooked apples and lemon juice), although i 
didn't think about that until just this moment.

Anahita

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 22:43:58 -0500
From: "Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] German bacon
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Also sprach Robin Carroll-Mann:
> I'm looking at the recipe for bratwurst in Sabina Welserin.  It calls for 4
> pounds each of prok and beef, plus two pounds of bacon.  What kind of
> bacon would be appropriate?  Back bacon (Canadian), streaky bacon
> (American), or something else entirely?

Probably streaky bacon (or probably uncured belly meat, anyway). I
think the word for the back bacon (which is actually from the loin)
is "schinken" (which can also mean ham); if the word "speck" is used,
that's a fattier cut like belly or jowl meat.

Adamantius

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 22:34:01 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] German bacon
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Probably streaky bacon (or probably uncured belly meat, anyway). I
> think the word for the back bacon (which is actually from the loin)
> is "schinken" (which can also mean ham); if the word "speck" is used,
> that's a fattier cut like belly or jowl meat.
>
> Adamantius

Bingo.  You pegged it.  It's also worth noting, "Speck" is also the 
Generic term for (whale) blubber.  More accurately "Walfischspeck."

Bear

Date: 5 Apr 2004 18:49:46 -0000
From: "Volker Bach" <bachv at paganet.de>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period German Vegetables
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:18:05 -0500 (Central Daylight Time), "Amanda
Blackwolf" <amandablackwolf at cox.net> wrote :

> I'm having a hard time finding vegetable dishes or a period (mostly) German
> Feast that I'm working up a bid for.....can anyone help me out by  
> pointing the way?

Asuisde from Rumpoldt (which I was beaten to), you can also use recipes
from Platina. The book was repeatedly printed and widely read in Germany,
and the 1534 (IIRC) translation contains the veggie dishes in German. (the
'Kuechenmaistrey' was also published fraudulently under Platina's name)

Then there's this from the Inntalkochbuch (late 15th/early 16th cent.  
South German):

<<50>
Gepraten arbaiss
Mach ein chaltguss vnd seud sy darinn vnd
zeuch dy pälg dauon vnd seud sy an dy stat
vnd stoss in einen morser vnd tue honig dar-Þ
ein vnd nim ein geribens prot mit VI aier
tuter vnd tue smalcz darczu vnd nim dann ein
hulczein spis vnd ache I praten vnd legs zue
vnd prat in an dy stat vnd pegews in mit
haissem smalcz.

Fried peas

Take cold water and boil the peas in that, remove the skins and then boil
them till done. Pound in a mortar, season with honey, and add grated bread
with  egg yolks and lard. Take a wooden spit and shape a roast. Place it
by (the fire) and roast it till done. Baste it with hot lard.

<<51>>
Regen würm von arbaiss
Item: gesoten in chaltguss, zeuch in dy pälg
ab vnd gesoten an dy stat, treibs durch ein si
auf ein schüssel als regen würm. Vnd nim ein
durchtriben senif vnd honig vnd machs ab mit
saffran vnd gewürcz vnd gewss an dy arbaiss.

Rainworms from peas

Item: boiled in cold water, remove their skins and boil them till done.
Pass them through a sieveinto a bowl as (to look like) rainworms. Then
take stirred mustard and honey and season it with saffron and spices,  
and pour that over the peas.

Giano

Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 02:47:57 +0200 (MEST)
From: "Kai D. Kalix" <kdkalix at gmx.de>
Subject: [sca-cooks] Re: German texts
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Greetings,
I have - once upon a time, and I really don't remember the url - found 
An redaction of a recipe from the Rheinfränkisches Kochbuch:

Gingerbread Sauce
(s. 25)
500g Gingerbread (gr: Pfefferkuchen, a stronger, sharper and not so sweet
kind of gingerbread)
2 TBS White Wine Vinegar
Honey
1/2 l Red Wine

Crumble gingerbread, bring in the wine to a boil, taste with vinegar and
honey, put through a strainer. Serve cold.
Nim eszig wyn vnd honig vnd pefferbrot vnd stoisz vnder ein ander vnd isz
dunne vnd wurcze isz vnde erwelle isz vnd gib isz kalt ab du wilt Nim sische
adir fleische adir wiltbrait gesodens adir gebradens darczu.

Take vinegar, wine and honey and pepperbread and pound together and [eat it
thin? it is thin?] and season it and boil it and give it cold, if you want.
Serve it to fish or to meat or to venison, cooked or roasted.
Rheinfränkisches Kochbuch, um 1445

I also have - being german - some redactions from german recipes that
probably never were translated into english, if someone is interested (but
my translations skills from german into english are not that good, I usually
translate the other way. The books in question are:
Ehlert, Trude: Kochbuch des Mittelalters, Düsseldorf 2000;
Fahrenkamp, H. Jürgen: Wie man eyn teutsches Mannsbild bey Kräfften hält,
Polença 1999;
Lutz, Peter: Herrenspeis und Bauernspeis, Fulda 2003.
Ehlert is very good, giving mostly the originals and the source; 
Fahrenkamp doesn't, and his redaction are very modernized; Lutz is very thin.

I'll just give you an example from Ehlert:
Pea Soup
Serves 4
250g fresh peas (w/out pods!)
2 onions
40g butter
1.25 l broth
1 portion of saffron
pepper
2 dashes of macis
1 bunch of parsley
maybe 40g breadcrumbs or flour
peel onion and chop very fine. sautee in butter, add peas. If you want a
clear soup, add the broth, season with pepper, saffron and macis, cook for
20 min on not too high flame. Sprinkle with finely chopped parsley. If you
want the soup to thicken, add the breadcrumbs or the flour just befor
pouring the broth over.
you can also purree a part of the peas after 15 min.
you can also take dry peas, green or yellow: soak them overnight and take
that water for the broth and cook for 45 min

cclvj. Lauter Erbes suppen. Clear Pea Soup.
Lauter Erbes suppen/ seüd die Erbes/ nimb nur die lautern brue/ hack ein
zwiffel gar klein darein/ gilbs/ stüpps/ thuo ein wenig schmaltz darein/
Muscatblue/ baewt Semel/ aber den Kindbetterin nimpt man nicht zwiffel/
sondern ein schmaltz darein versotten/ aber so mans dick macht/ so schlecht
mans ein wenig durch die Erbes/ roest ein wenig zwiffel darein/ der
geschnitten ist/ gilbs/ stüpps/ man mags zimblich rueren/ ob man will/ seichs.

Cook the peas, take only the clear broth, chop into that an onion very
small, colour in yellow, season it, add some lard, macis, roasted roll. But
for women in childbed do not take onions, but cook some lard in it. If you
want the soup to thicken, strain a part of the peas through a strainer, fry
a little onions therein, that has been chopped, coulour it yellow, season
it, you may stir it well, if aou want, and strain it.

Kochbuch des Balthasar Staindl von Dillingen, 1544, aus: Ehlert, 
Kochbuch

kai

Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:22:20 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Strudel
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Is apple strudel, or any strudel, found in period?  Recipes?
>  -Helena

To my knowledge, strudel is 17th or 18th Century and I haven't  
encountered any early recipes--yet.

Bear

Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 19:22:35 -0500
From: Barbara Benson <voxeight at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sauerbraten
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Vitha
> I'm trying to document sauerbraten for an upcoming feast.  What 
> I have found says "no, not in period"  Closest thing is 1790s.  Any 
> suggestions?

I have never had Sauerbraten but a brief Google Search showed that it
is a Spiced Beef Roast of some sort. For my upcoming feast I redacted
the following dish that might be an early version from Sabina
Welserin:

A Good Beef Roast (Translated y V. Armstrong)
152 Ain güt brates zü machen. Nim kelberis oder ain lembratten von
ainem ochsen, legs jn ain wein jber nacht, darnach stecks jn an ain
spis, thü jn dan jn ain haffen, thü daran ain güte fleschbrie,
zwiffel, wein, gewirtz, pfeffer, jmber, ngellen vnnd lasß woll daran
sieden, versaltz es nit.

To make a good Roast. Take veal or a sirloin of beef, lay it overnight
in wine, afterwards stick it on a spit. Put it then in a pot. Put good
broth therein, onions, wine, spices, pepper, ginger and cloves and let
it cook therein. Do not over salt it.

Ingredients:
2 1/4 lb Beef Chuck
2 C Red Wine
2 C Beef Broth
2 C  (1 large)  Coarsely chopped Onions
1/2 t Mace
1 t Pepper
1 t Salt
1 1/2 t Ground Ginger
1/4 t Cloves

Place Beef in airtight container with wine, soak overnight. Remove
from wine and heat grill to 475 degrees. Grill beef about 5 minutes on
each side. Put spices into the broth and add 3/4 to 1 C of the soaking
wine. Place chopped onion in a roasting pan, place beef on onions.
Pour spice mixture over beef and cover tightly. Roast at 375 degrees
for 2 1/2 hours basting every 30 minutes.

I hope this is of assistance to you.

Glad Tidings,
-Serena da Riva

Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 21:07:03 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.et>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sauerbraten
To: "Barbara Benson" <voxeight at gmail.com>,	"Cooks within the SCA"
	<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Sauerbraten is a pickled beef roast, often a cheaper piece of meat like
brisket, which is cooked slow and moist like a pot roast.  The pickle uses
vinegar, which provides the sour taste.  It is common to use at least some
of the pickle in the cooking and convert the cooking fluids to a sauce for
the meat.  If a better cut of meat is used, pickling is done for a few hours
or overnight just to impart the flavor.

Welser's beef roast is similar to Sauerbraten in spicing but uses wine and
broth for the cooking and makes no mention of preparing a sauce from the
cooking liquor.  The method of browning by roasting and finishing the
cooking in a pot is at odds with Sauerbraten.  I'd probably use rump roast
if preparing Welser's recipe for  feast.

I suspect that Sauerbraten was developed as a method of cooking pickled beef
being preserved over the winter and the pickling was carried over to the
recipe when better methods of preservation became available.  I have yet to
find solid proof my opinion is correct.

Bear

> I have never had Sauerbraten but a brief Google Search showed that it
> is a Spiced Beef Roast of some sort. For my upcoming feast I redacted
> the following dish that might be an early version from Sabina
> Welserin:
<snip>
> -Serena da Riva

Date: Sun, 30 Jan 200 20:41:03 -0800
From: Maggie MacDonald <maggie5 at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sauerbraten
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

At 08:07 PM 1/30/2005,Chris Stanifer said something like:
> It sounds very likely that this is the case.  Now, though...does anyone
> have a 'born on' date for
> Gingersnaps??  Every 'traditional' Sauerbraten recipe I have seen uses
> Ginersnaps to thicken the
> sauce, and I'm just curious to know if these 'could' have been used in one
> of the period recipes.
>
> William de Grandfort

I was reading through Sabina Welserin (on Cariadoc's site) and noticed the
use of stuff to make gravies and sauces, one of them was lebkuchen, which
is a form (kinda) of gingerbread/ginger snap.
Here's the quote from the site I mentioned:

7 To make a sauce in which to put a haunch of venison

Lard it well and roast it and make a good sauce for it. Take Reinfal and
stir cherry syrup into it, and fry Lebkuchen in fat and chop good sweet
apples, almonds, cloves, cinnamon sticks, ginger, currants, pepper and
raisins and let it all cook together. When you want to serve it, then pour
the sauce over it. It is also for marinating a boar's head. Then cook it in
two parts water and one third vinegar. The head of a pig is also made in
this manner.

maggie

Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:51:03 -0800 (PST)
From: "Ca ." <tgrcat2001 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Sauerbraten  Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 20, Issue 145
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

No,  have not found Sauerbraten as in marinated then
braised and served with Gingersnap gravy.  What I have
found are a number of recipes that have you take a
roast of beef, marinate it overnight in a couple of
ways then roast them (on a spit)  and serve with a
sauce made of the marinade.

One flavor combination is recipe 44.  Juniper berries,
caraway and crushed garlic in water and vinegar and chopped onion.
for serving the sauce gets pepper, ginger and butter
added to it.

and number 47 is translated on my wbsite:
Take a beef roast/ and marinate it overnight / put
half water and half vinegar/ also crushed garlic/ in
the broth (brine)/ and a little salt/ let the roast
lie therein over night/ the next morning early take it
from the brine/ and salt it/ stick iton (a
rotisserie?)/ and let it roast. Take the brine/ in
which the roast was marinated/ pour it off/ so the
thick (particles) remain on the bottom (of the
marinating bowl)/ put it into a small Fishpot/ with a
little crushed pepper/ and fresh unmelted buttr/ and
let it simmer/ set a tinned fryingpan under the roast
and pour this over the roast/ so it is a good meal for
Hungarian and Polish gentlemen.

Recipe 50 uses juniper and cumin and vinegar marinated
overnight.

Gwen Cat

Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:06:08 +0200
From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Potatoes (was Ratio)
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Am Samstag, 25. Juni 2005 00:36 schrieb Vladimir Armbruster:
> *toddles off to find a good book on Period German Cuisine* (Period 
> being 1425 or so for him)

Do you read German? If so, get Trude Ehlert: Das Kochbuch des Mittelalters.
The text is rather basic, but she is among Germany's leading experts 
and the bibliography is outstanding.

As to cookbooks, the Buoch von Guoter Spise (late 14th century), Meister
Eberhard (mid-15th century), the Königsberg MS (late 15th cent) and the
Inntalkochbuch (laste 15th/early 16th cent) are available in English
translation. The Rheinfränkisches Kochbuch (mid 15th), Meister Hans
(mid-15th), the various Munich manuscript fragments (mid-15th to 16th), the
Mondseer Kochbuch and the Wolfenbüttel MS have also been published and
rendered in modern German. I'm currently working on a translation of the
Wolfenbüttel MS.

Giano

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 12:04:04 +0200
From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] looking for simple german vigil chow
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Am Samstag, 21. Oktober 2006 04:05 schrieb Stefan li Rous:

> I was thinking that some German pastries of some type might be good
> for this, but I don't seem to have any files specific to German
> pastries. Perhaps jumbals or pretzels?

Sweet or savoury?

There's some very interesting stuff in the German corpus. May I  
recommend:

Honey Chicken Pastries

A 15th century German treat

This recipe is from the 'Rheinfr?nkisches Kochbuch', a Middle High German
manuscript made around 1445 for a wealthy patron in the southern Rhineland.
Its exact provenance is unknown. The text has been published as:  Gloning, T.
(ed.): Rheinfr?nkisches Kochbuch (um 1445), Tupperware Deutschland, Frankfurt
1998.

Text:
Mach aber ein forme ubir ein model wie du wilt usz einem deyge von eyeren und
backe den enwenig uff einem breyden ding in einem oben das die forme der masz
du haben wilt hart werde dan du das widder herusz und nym ein wol gesoten
czurstoszen hune und du dar in eyer wurcze und honig und slag das alles dorch
und du ye in ein forme als manich du machist einen leffel vol und secze die
widder in den offen so wirt das uff gen unde wirt ein hoffelich essen.

Translation:
Make a (pastry) mold by spreading pastry dough made with eggs over a model of
whatever kind you like. Bake this a little in the oven, on a broad dish, so
that it hardens in the shape you want it. Remove it from the oven. Then take
well boiled and ground-up chicken, spices, egg and honey, and pass this
through a sieve. Then place into each pastry shell, however many you made, a
spoonful and put them back into the oven. It will rise and become a courtly
dish.

Redaction:

500g pastry dough (traditional pie crust works well)
500g cooked chicken
3-4 eggs
1/2-3/4 cup honey
cloves
cinnamon
nutmeg
salt
1 egg yolk (optional)
saffron (optional)

Make pastry shells from the dough and bake for 10-15 minutes at 175?C (until
hard), then remove from oven, cool, and unmould. If you have any imaginative
moulds, this is the time to use them.

In a blender, shred the chicken and add the eggs until a smooth paste results.
Add honey to taste (more than 3/4 cup is a waste - you are aiming for a touch
of sweetness, not a confection). Add a pinch of salt and season with
cinnamon, numeg and cloves (the cloves should predominate. They harmonise
well with the honey). Fill the pastry shells with this paste and bake at 175?
C for 15-25 minutes (for cupcake-sized pastries) or 45-60 minutes (for
pie-sized pastries). Remove the pastry briefly from the oven once the filling
has set firmly, turn them over, and brush the shell with egg yolk and
saffron.

The pastries can be served warm or cold and go well with a sweet-tart sauce
like honey mustard. Small fingerfood-sized ones can easily be made in
quantity in cupcake moulds and work well as dayboard pr picknick food.

Making the Pastry Shell:

The source does not give any recipe for the crust other than that it should be
made with eggs. Puristically, this could be read to mean a dough of flour and
eggs only, but that gives it a rather unpleasant consistency. I favour a
freer interpretation and base my crusts on a recipe from the Kuechenmaisterey, a printed cookbook from South Germany dating to 1490. This
crust is intended for fritters, but works well for baked pastries.

Text:
Czu machen ein krapffen teig. Item seud honig in wein al? vil du wilt und
nym auch ein weitte schussel und zwir den wein mit weissem melbe als ein
muslein. Schlach ein ayer tottern der rot sey in ein ander schussel und
auch ein wenig saffran das treib gar wol mit dem gemachten honig wein und
tu es in den gezwerten teig temperir es auch wol. Und wurff ye ein
steublein melbs dar zu in die schusseln als lang bi? du ein litigen teig
gemachst. Den so bereit ein sauber tuch auf und zeug den teig darauf mit
einem welgerholtz zu massen duen. Un schneid den form gro? od klein all? du
die krapffen haben wilt nach yeder ful da richt dich nach. Od was teig man
mit hefel od bier od hopf wasser macht dy mu? man lassen auf gen und
darnach aber ein knetten mit loem wasser od mit einem gesotten honig wein
da wi? dich nach zu richten.

Translation:
To make dough for Krapfen. Boil honey in wine, as much as you need, take a
wide bowl and stir the wine with white flour until it is the consistency of
porridge. Break an egg yolk that is red with saffron into another bowl and
stir it with the honey wine. Add that to the other bowl and mix it well.
Add flour, little by little, until you get a stiff (?) dough. Turn that out
on a clean cloth and roll it out to the proper thickness. Cut out the
shapes you want the Krapfen in, large or small, depending on the filling
you want to use. But the doughs that are made with yeast or beer or hop
water need to rise first and then be kneaded with lukewarm water or honey
wine. Heed this advice.

Redaction:
This is not very clear, but it shows the major components of one dough
while pointing at a number of other possibilities. My reading of this  
would be:

1/2 cup white wine
3-4 tblsp honey
2 eggs
2-3 cups flour
saffron

Heat the wine and dissolve the honey in it. Beat the eggs with a pinch of
saffron. In a large mixing bowl, combine honey-wine, egg, and flour until a
stiff dough results. Cool and rest, then roll out to use.

Giano

Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 12:01:36 -0400
From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] kuchen fuer landsknecht
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

This weekend, members of my local SCA shire who are working on high
authenticity Landsknecht stuff had their 'fall campaign'. I was asked if
I would come up and teach some German cooking, as the frauen were
getting a bit tired of hanging around camp.

So, we did the following dishes:

(Translations from GwenCat or Valoise Armstrong unless otherwise named)

Sirloin of Beef from the Cookbook of Sabrina Welserin
152 To make a good roast
Take veal or a sirloin of beef, lay it overnight in wine, afterwards
stick it on a spit. Put it then in a pot. Put good broth therein,
onions, wine, spices, pepper, ginger and cloves and let it cook therein.
Do not over salt it.

Brown mustard from Rumpolt
Brown mustard made up with clear vinegar/ is also good.

Millet with broth (based on Rumpolt)
You can also make millet porridge with beef broth, that is not bad
either  (Giano's translation)

but we used chicken broth...

Lentils (Rumpolt)
Take lentils/ wash them fine clean/ and soak them. Take also a good
beef-broth/ let simmer/ cut onion and a little garlic into it/ so that
it comes nice and thick/ and when it is cooked/ so put green
well-tasting herbs/ that have been chopped fine/ thereto/ and cooked
bacon/ let it simmer therewith/ so it becomes good and tasty. You can
also cook lentils without onion/ how one likes to eat it/ so it may be
prepared.

Roast Carrot (based on these two recipes from Rumpolt)
182. White root [turnip? parsnip?]/ cut them in cubes/ and roast them in
hot butter/ pour beef broth / that is lightly salted/ also thereover/
put it  on [to cook] and let simmer/ that a short broth [till a little
juice] comes out. You may do it without meat/ so it is in all ways good.
Or you may let it [the meat?] simmer with the roots/ so it browns
nicely/ good and welltasting.
183. You can also prepare and roast the yellow roots/ be
they cut small or large/ also with a beefbroth/ take meat
therunder or not.

Flooded Apples (Rumpolt)
47. Take apples/ and cut them quarterways/ sprinkle them with flour/
and toss them in hot butter/ and bake [fry] them/ sprinkle them with
sugar/ and give warm to the table/ so it is called geschwembt [flooded]
apples.

Snow (Sabrina Welserin)
Thin cream and put it in a pot. And take a whisk and beat it together,
until it becomes snow foam on top. And roast a bread and lay it in a
dish and strew sugar thereon and put the foam on the bread. Then it is
done.

Mustard for dried cod (Welserin)
Take mustard powder, stir into it good wine and pear preserves and put
sugar into it, as much as you feel is good, and make it as thick as you
prefer to eat it, then it is a good mustard.

I also fried some reconstituted salt pollack (with breadcrumbs, pepper
and mace) that went over far better than I expected.
-- 
-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net 

Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:22:19 -0500
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com
Subject: [Sca-cooks] GERMAN SPECIALTIES book
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

I am looking for a book I found referenced in the Florilegium.  Does  
anyone know an ISBN for this book?  I couldn't find it on Amazon, ABE  
books, Worldcat, or a google search.   It was posted by Kappler, MMC  
Richard A. or "Puck".  Is he still on the list?
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-BY-REGION/fd-Germany-msg.html

GERMAN SPECIALTIES; A Culinary Journey
Christine Metzger, Editor
Covers the history of German cuisine in text and thousands of
illustrations including the evolution of the art of cooking, and the
origin, variety, production., and consumption of foods. Includes many
recipes for complete meals. 1997: 680 pages, ca. 3,000 illustrations.

I found this one, but while a similar subject, it appears to be a  
different book.
Culinaria Germany (ISBN: 9783833141140) Christine Metzger
Book Description: Konemann, 2007. Illustrated Laminated Boards. Book  
Condition: As New. Dust Jacket Condition: As New. 225 x 260mm. 460pp,  
gneral index, Recipe Index. Nmerous colour plates. Provides a host of  
recipes, cooking methods and secrets fom all the regions of Germany.  
Softback.

Searching Worldcat with the author's name and 1997 found this,  which  
could be the same book in German.
Deutsche Spezialit?ten /
Ruprecht Stempell;  Christoph B?schel;  Sasa Fuis;  Peter  
Feierabend;  Michael Ditter
1997  German  Book 2 v. : col. ill. ; 32 cm.
K?ln : K?nemann, ; ISBN: 3829000014 9783829000017
Description of historical regional cuisines of Germany, organized by  
states.

Ranvaig

Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:37:50 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] GERMAN SPECIALTIES book
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Koneman tends to release and then re-release their books under slightly
varying titles. Some have been translated into English. Others haven't been.
It's all complicated by a bankruptcy and titles being sold to reduce debts.
Also what is available in Europe and what's been available in the states
has varied. (Ask my husband about the Koneman volume I made him carry home from  
Venice.)

I would guess that this book in the Florilegium contains the same material as the Culinaria Germany volume. Some of the Culinaria volumes are now out in paperback.

I like the entire series. You should be able to interlibrary loan it.
Also keep an eye out at larger Borders or B&N stores as some of the volumes do get picked up and sold through them.

Johnna

ranvaig at columbus.rr.com wrote:
> GERMAN SPECIALTIES; A Culinary Journey
> Christine Metzger, Editor
>
> I found this one, but while a similar subject, it appears to be a  
> different book.
> Culinaria Germany (ISBN: 9783833141140) Christine Metzger
> Book Description: Konemann, 2007.
> Ranvaig

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:25:24 +0000 (GMT)
From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] two sources (Byzantine, German)
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Surfing around, I found two foreign language sources, one Byzantine (10th century; engl. transl.), one German (14th century).

Here are a few German recipes that I was not hitherto aware of:
http://www.google.de/books?id=fKokYqB96m0C&pg=PA289&dq=pulverrezepte&sig=RgAZGI0R2KkPvtwrXQgHD9EKRPQ#PPA301,M1

The Byzantine source is here (search for example for "abyrtake" or "sour-sauce" or "food" or any other food term you might want to explore):

http://www.stoa.org/sol/

From their website:

The Suda  is a massive 10th  century
Byzantine Greek historical encyclopedia of the ancient Mediterranean
world, derived from the scholia to critical editions of canonical works
and from compilations by yet earlier authors. The purpose of the Suda On Line  is to open up this stronghold of information by means of a freely
accessible, keyword-searchable, XML-encoded database with translations,
annotations, bibliography, and automatically generated links to a
number of other important electronic resources. We believe that greater
accessibility of this material should facilitate a good variety of new
research.    (Read more)

E.

Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 23:39:38 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period German Foods/Resources
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

<<< Please, to help aid some resent interest and research, I was hoping to 
pick ya'lls brain for Period German recipes/resources.

Molli Rose >>>

Lesen Sie Deutsch?  If so, Thomas Gloning's cookbook collection is a good 
place to start.  http://www.uni-giessen.de/gloning/kobu.htm

Alia Atlas's translation of Ein Boch von Guter Spise can be found here: 
http://cs-people.bu.edu/akatlas/Buch/buch.html

Valois Armstrong's translation of Das Kochbuch von Sabina welserin can be 
found here: 
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/Cookbooks/Sabrina_Welserin.html

And you can find Gwen Cat's work on Ein Neue Kochbuch here: 
http://clem.mscd.edu/~grasse/GKContents1.htm

There are many German recipe translations scattered through the Florilegium.

Bear

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:04:01 -0400
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Another mustardy question.
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

<<< btw is there a full version from the german rumpold text on the net than the pages by Gloning? I also found the translation project by M. Grasse? >>>

I think my page has the most complete text.  I started with a transcription by Master Tirloch, have transcribed some other chapters, and am working through the translation.  There is still quite of the bit of the book to transcribe, but if you are looking for something specific, I can transcribe it for you.

http://www.geocities.com/ranvaig/rumpolt/rumpolt.html

Ranvaig

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:52:59 -0400
From: "Sam Wallace" <sam_wallace at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] A proposal: Das Kochbuch der Philippine Welser
To: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I have just gotten a copy of Das Kochbuch der Philippine Welser. This is a 
two volume set with a facsimile edition in one volume and commentary, 
transcription and glossary in the second. I am of course very happy about 
this and wanted to share the joy a little. Well, actually, I would like to 
share all of the joy, but I believe there might be some copyright issues. 
What I would like to do is to post a recipe a day in the original language 
and see if we as a group can translate it over the course of the day. Some 
sections are short while others are a couple of pages in length. Here is the 
first recipe as an example:

Zucker zu leytteren

Item Nimb ain pfund zucker, vnd das weys von aynem ay, das schlag wol mit 
ainem leffell, vnnd thues jn den zucker, vnnd geuss ein mass wassen [wasser] 
dar eyn, vnnd ruers durck ain ander, thues dan jn ain mesina pfanen, vnnd 
ruers setz auff ain tryfuess dhue ain glut dar vnder, vnnd las zwo stund 
sten, vnnd ruers nit vmb, vnnd schaue, vnnd schaue, das es nit jber ge vnnd 
wn [crossed out] wan du sichst das das kitt zu samen get, vnnd sy auff pent 
vnnd der zuger praun wirt so Nim jn her ab vnnd seychs schen durch ain durch 
vnnd setz dan wider auff den tryfuess vnnd lass auff ain stund sten vnd wan 
du sychs das es prun jst so thue den zucker her ab von dem feur vnnd thue jn 
an das ding das du ayn machen wilt Es sey jmber paredeyss epfoll oder ander 
ding vnd las als lang ser [crossed out] sten biss es lab wirt so ist es 
recht.

You know it has to be good if it starts off with, "Take a pound of 
sugar...." If this pleases the group, I will continue. I hope this proves to 
be an enjoyable effort for all.

Guillaume 

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 16:28:17 +0000 (GMT)
From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] New book on the history of German cuisine
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

There is a new (well, 2008) book on the history of German cuisine:

Peter Peter, Kulturgeschichte der deutschen K?che, M?nchen, C.H. Beck, 2008.

Topics include: medieval food, e.g. Hildegard of Bingen, 16th century cook books, Luther as a culinary person, banquets, show dishes, social history of food, and a host of other subjects. Many pictures, at the end of each section one or more recipes.

E.

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 22:39:36 +0000 (GMT)
From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] New book on the history of German cuisine
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

<<< Apparently the author has also written one titled
/Kulturgeschichte/ der italienischen K?che

Do you know if they are  the same format?

Johnnae

emilio szabo wrote:
There is a new (well, 2008) book on the history of German cuisine:

Peter Peter, Kulturgeschichte der deutschen K?che, M?nchen, C.H. Beck, 2008. >>>

I have only started to read the German one. The Italian one looks good as well.

You can have a glance at both books at the http://books.google.com website using the search words

peter kulturgeschichte kueche

E.g., here is a picture of a 15th century market scene:

http://books.google.com/books?id=UVCKFzgcgS8C&printsec=frontcover&dq=peter+kulturgeschichte+kueche&hl=de#PPA45,M1

E.

Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:24:12 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A wedding dinner 1475

On Feb 3, 2010, at 3:40 PM, emilio szabo wrote:  
<<< Has anyone seen the book partially exhibited in this file?
http://www.utzverlag.de/buecher/40800les.pdf
As far as I can see there are passages about a wedding dinner in  
1475, recipes for certain items of the dinner and other things.
Just an impression.
E. >>>

Looks interesting.
It turns up as a book Feiern unter den Augen der Chronisten : die  
Quellentexte zur Landshuter F?rstenhochzeit von 1475
Author:	Thomas Bauer
Publisher:	M?nchen : Utz, 2008.
Series:	Sprach- und Literaturwissenschaften, 26
Edition/Format:	Thesis/dissertation : Manuscript : German

but it seems to be listed just at Harvard in the US.

Material Type: Thesis/dissertation, Manuscript Document Type: Book,  
Archival Material All Authors / Contributors: Thomas Bauer

ISBN: 9783831608003
3831608008
	OCLC Number: 254422631
	Description: 289 S. ; 205 mm x 145 mm.
	Series Title: Sprach- und Literaturwissenschaften, 26  
Responsibility: Thomas Bauer.

Amazon sells it but doesn't have any subject headings for it.  
Amazon.de sells it and includes a description.

I didn't find a review anyplace. It's mentioned 39 places as a full  
title which is how I searched it.

Let's see what the German speakers say.

Johnna

Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 23:45:47 +0100
From: Ana Vald?s <agora158 at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A wedding dinner 1475

It was interesting, I downloaded the pdf file and browsed it short: it is a description of feasts and weddings in Bavaria and other German kingdoms,
based on different chronicles. As example the wedding of the king Mattias
Corvinus from Hungary with the princess Eleanor of Naples.

Ana
-- 
http://anavaldes.wordpress.com
http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com
http://caravia.stumbleupon.com
http://www.crusading.se
Gondolgatan 2 l tr
12832 Skarpn?ck
Sweden

Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 06:04:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org, SCA-AuthenticCooks at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Sca-cooks] More german cookery and brewing books

In the collection of the Bavarian State library: 
These are all at: http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/ausgaben/uni_ausgabe.html?projekt=1174066449

All downloadable as a PDF, and more interesting all of them have recipes for the cellar (i.e. beer) recipes too.  
Now I haven't looked at them yet, so I don't know if they are all just reprints of one another or if there are unique and additional recipes in each of them.
Helewyse

Koch- und Kellerey von allen Speisen. - Franckfurt am Meyn, 1544
Signatur: Res/4 Oecon. 209
[2008-08-05]
URN: urn:nbn:de:bvb:12-bsb00025628-3

Koch- und Kellerey von allen Speisen. - Franckfurt am Meyn, 1537
Signatur: 4 Oecon. 208
[2009-01-29]
URN: urn:nbn:de:bvb:12-bsb00027277-4

Kocherey und Kellermeisterey von allen Speisen und Getrenken. - Frankfurt a. M., 1557
Signatur: 4 A.gr.c. 35
[2008-04-25]
URN: urn:nbn:de:bvb:12-bsb00015958-7

Kocherey von allen Speisen unnd Getrenken. - Stra?burg, 1581
Signatur: Oecon. 1004
[2009-01-19]
URN: urn:nbn:de:bvb:12-bsb00034005-6

Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 16:52:51 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Another question on peas

A cookbook I've been seeking for a long time.  If you have a complete copy, 
perhaps you could solve a problem I have when you have time.

About 20 years ago, I obtained a copy of Esther B. Aresty's The Delectable 
Past.  Aresty commnets that Wecker's work contains a recipe that "bore a 
close resembelance to R?sti".  She then procedes to provide a modern recipe 
for R?sti.  R?sti is a dish using Solanum tuberosum, the white or Irish 
potato, which, at the time Wecker was published, was just entering Northern 
Europe as botanical specimens.  If Wecker has a recipe for potatoes 
(Kartoffel, Taratouphli, Erdapfel, etc.) then it suggests that potatoes may 
have been more widespread than the records suggest.  If you come across such 
a recipe, please post it to the list, I and some others would certainly be 
interested in seeing it.

Many thanks.

Bear

----- Original Message ----- 

Ein K?stlich neu Kochbuch (1598) by Anna Wecker (or Weckerin) - which is
apparently the first printed cookbook with a woman author (the earlier
women's cookbooks are manuscripts).  She was the wife of a physician and
in the court of Pflazgraf of Rheinland - I suspect she was quite learned
and am peripherally interested in identifying her source of knowledge for
her medical advice, but primarily focused on the food and recipes at this
point.  I am only a few months into the project and trying to develop the
specialized vocabulary.  So far the recipe amounts are mostly single dish,
and is written in a type of grandmotherly stream-of-consciousness sort of
way.  So far I have done the table of contents of part 1 and 2, have been
excited about fritters, funnel cakes, proto-baumkuchen and quark.  Current
work is to identify, number and more or less name each recipe.

The baumkuchen queries based on an instruction for "heidenische teig" took
me on a road that led me to read Ryff's section on grains and beans.  And
thus, I want to know more!  I'm trying to sort out in my mind the
different type of grains used in baking for one, along with some of the
words being regionally specific and subject to variant spelling.  In my
head I told myself I needed to go back and get a grounding in the basics
to help this attempt at understanding the nature of the ingredients.  It
has been a great deal of fun.

I've been blogging about it here:

http://jillwheezul.livejournal.com/tag/weckerin
http://jillwheezul.livejournal.com/tag/baumkuchen

Katrine

Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 15:30:14 -0800 (PST)
From: wheezul at canby.com
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Another question on peas

It's available on line here:

Wecker, Anna:
Ein K?stlich new Kochbuch Von allerhand Speisen, an Gem?sen, Obs, Fleisch,
Gefl?gel, Wildpret, Fischen und Gebachens Nit allein vor Gesunde: sondern
auch und f?rnemlich vor Krancke, in allerley Kranckheiten und Gebr?sten
... / Mit flei? beschrieben durch F. Anna Weckerin, Weyland Herrn D.
Johann Jacob Weckers, des ber?mbten Medici, seligen, nachgelassene Wittib.
- Amberg, 1598
Signatur: Res/Oecon. 2174 b
[2008-10-15]
URN: urn:nbn:de:bvb:12-bsb00028737-3

<<< A cookbook I've been seeking for a long time.  If you have a complete
copy, perhaps you could solve a problem I have when you have time.

About 20 years ago, I obtained a copy of Esther B. Aresty's The Delectable
Past.  Aresty commnets that Wecker's work contains a recipe that "bore a
close resembelance to R?sti".  She then procedes to provide a modern recipe
for R?sti.  R?sti is a dish using Solanum tuberosum, the white or Irish
potato, which, at the time Wecker was published, was just entering Northern
Europe as botanical specimens.  If Wecker has a recipe for potatoes
(Kartoffel, Taratouphli, Erdapfel, etc.) then it suggests that potatoes may
have been more widespread than the records suggest.  If you come across such
a recipe, please post it to the list, I and some others would certainly be
interested in seeing it.

Many thanks. >>>

It's available on line here:

http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/ausgaben/uni_ausgabe.html?recherche=ja&projekt=1174066449&autor=Wecker%2C+Anna&titel=&sortjahr=

The details:

Wecker, Anna:
Ein K?stlich new Kochbuch Von allerhand Speisen, an Gem?sen, Obs, Fleisch,
Gefl?gel, Wildpret, Fischen und Gebachens Nit allein vor Gesunde: sondern
auch und f?rnemlich vor Krancke, in allerley Kranckheiten und Gebr?sten
... / Mit flei? beschrieben durch F. Anna Weckerin, Weyland Herrn D.
Johann Jacob Weckers, des ber?mbten Medici, seligen, nachgelassene Wittib.
- Amberg, 1598
Signatur: Res/Oecon. 2174 b
[2008-10-15]
URN: urn:nbn:de:bvb:12-bsb00028737-3

For those not familiar with this site needing instructions:  Search for
Wecker, Anna as author if the info above doesn't come up.  Click on the
URN in the description and there will be a pdf download link in the upper
right.  When the menu comes up click 'ja' and then the Weiter button.

There are other cookbooks and texts there.  The Bavarian State Library is
a treasure trove.

I'll look and see what I can find for the similarity to R?sti if you don't
get there first.  Of course I was looking for an elusive potato recipe
(what good German wouldn't??) but there are parts I have only just briefly
scanned so far.

Katrine

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:33:11 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>,
	cooking_rumpolt at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Kochbuch der Maria Stenglerin (Augsburg 1554)

I've had a note from Thomas Gloning that he has a new
German cookbook available as a .pdf on his website.

It's a 19th century reprint of a cookbook (or cookery mss.) dated 1554.

Das Kochbuch der Maria Stenglerin (Augsburg 1554) (PDF).
http://www.uni-giessen.de/gloning/tx/stenglerin-kochbuch-1554.pdf

Johnnae

Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2010 20:26:25 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: cooking_rumpolt at yahoogroups.com,	Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] 2010 K?chenmeisterei  edition

Came across this 2010 edition tonight

(various versions are up on the web, but some people may want to check  
the notes and glossary in this one.)

K?chenmeisterei Edited by Trude Ehlert

 	Edition, ?bersetzung und Kommentar zweier Kochbuch-Handschriften  
des 15. Jahrhunderts
Solothurn S 490 und K?ln, Historisches Archiv GB 4? 27
Mit einem reprographischen Nachdruck der K?lner Handschrift Series:   
Kultur, Wissenschaft, Literatur
Beitr?ge zur Mittelalterforschung  Vol. 21 Year of Publication: 2010  
Frankfurt am Main, Berlin, Bern, Bruxelles, New York, Oxford, Wien,  
2010. 494 S., zahlr. Abb. ISBN 978-3-631-59580-0  geb.

It's very pricey--euros 76.80 USD $111.95

It is turning up in US libraries so it may be able to be interlibrary  
loaned.

http://www.peterlang.com/Index.cfm?vID=59580&vHR=1&vUR=2&vUUR=1&vLang=E

Die K?chenmeisterei, als erstes gedrucktes deutschsprachiges Kochbuch  
bereits 1485 in N?rnberg bei Peter Wagner erschienen, erlebte rasch  
zahlreiche Auflagen und Abdrucke, unter anderem 1486 bei Johann Petri  
in Augsburg und 1487 bei Peter Sch?ffer in Mainz. Erhalten haben sich  
mit dem Codex S 490 der Zentralbibliothek Solothurn und der  
Handschrift GB 4? 27 aus dem Historischen Archiv der Stadt K?ln auch  
zwei handschriftliche Fassungen, die in engem Konnex mit den  
Fr?hdrucken stehen. Beide Fassungen werden hier erstmals in kritischer  
Edition vorgelegt, ausgestattet jeweils mit einer Beschreibung der  
Handschriften, einer Bestimmung der Schreibsprachen, einer  
?bersetzung, Stellenkommentaren und dem Versuch, die  
Verwandtschaftsverh?ltnisse zwischen den Handschriften und den  
Fr?hdrucken zu kl?ren. Ein reprographischer Nachdruck der K?lner  
Handschrift erm?glicht dem Benutzer einen Vergleich mit der Edition.  
Das Glossar gibt Aufschlu? ?ber die Bedeutung seltener W?rter. Eine  
Rezeptkonkordanz erlaubt den raschen Vergleich zwischen der Edition  
und den beiden ma?geblichen Fr?hdrucken von Wagner und Petri.

Contents
Aus dem Inhalt: Solothurner Handschrift S 490 - K?lner Handschrift GB  
4? 27 - Handschriftenbeschreibung, Edition und ?bersetzung -  
?berlieferungszusammenhang der Solothurner und der K?lner Handschrift  
der K?chenmeisterei mit den Drucken von Wagner und Petri -  
Abweichungen der Handschriften zu den Drucken - Besonderheiten der  
K?chenmeisterei im Vergleich zur ?brigen handschriftlichen  
Kochrezepttradition - Glossar - Rezeptkonkordanz.

Johnnae

Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 23:47:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: wheezul at canby.com
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Kochbuch der Maria Stenglerin (Augsburg 1554)

<<< A recipe for rose honey looks intriguing.  And I like the apothocary
section at the end from pages 33 - 40 with various flavored waters and
sugars.

Katherine >>>

A few more intriguing things:

Gluten free rice almond egg cakes made like "farmer's cakelets" [pauren
kuechlen]

A recipe for spritz that specifies the use of a beitel thuch [beutel tuch]
or a pursed bag.  In my mind I have been wondering how they might have
formed the spritz.  Some recipes say to put the dough, unhelpfully, into
the spritz without telling you what it might be.  I can almost picture
forcing a tube of spritz out of an almost closed drawstring bag.  The
other option I thought of was cutting a hole in the corner like we do for
plastic bags now, but that seems contrary to a medieval ethic somehow. 
Anyone have any insight?  I might try and experiment (bwahahahaha)

2 recipes for wurst called 'figitella'.  Is there an Italian recipe for
that?  It makes sense that Augsburg had Italian influence given the power
of the Fugger trading family and their connections in Italy.

A preservation method for sour cherries by dipping the stem in wax and
drying them in lime (I think) and then hanging them up in bunches.

Herbal water for brushing oily (waxy) hair.

A nuance of the word safft, which I might translate merely as 'juice'  is
explained by some recipes that clearly make a syrup/preserve by addind
sugar and boiling with an end product that is "dick wuert wie hunig" [be
thick like honey].

How to clarify butter in the sun for 30 days - called 'kreitz butter'.

A reduced lemon juice syrup (another safft).

A 2nd rosehoney recipe.

A recipe for St. John's wort oil with an explanation of how to seal a pot
with a lid using a seal made with an egg white dough.  It sort of reminded
me of how hard royal icing can be, so perhaps this was effective.  I also
wonder if one was using pottery pots glazed on the inside if you could
seal them while still hot, would they create a vacuum seal?

Katherine the daydreamer

Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 19:02:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: wheezul at canby.com
To: cooking_rumpolt at yahoogroups.com
Cc: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] [cooking _rumpolt] 2010 K?chenmeisterei
	edition

<<< Came across this 2010 edition tonight

(various versions are up on the web, but some people may want to check
the notes and glossary in this one.)

K?chenmeisterei Edited by Trude Ehlert >>>

My 2 cent opinion is that anything Trude Ehlert so far has produced has
been simply outstanding.  She approaches from a linguistic standpoint, so
the glossaries are especially helpful.  She's also a concordance kind of
girl :)

Katherine

Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 04:02:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] kitchen equipment in Germany in the 16th century
	/ was:	cast iron

There are two books online at books.google.com

Rudolf Meringer: Das deutsche Haus und sein Hausrat. 1906.

Th. Hampe: Gedichte vom Hausrat aus dem XV. und XVI. Jahrhundert. 1899.
(This one includes an introduction, a glossary and several texts.)

I have not seen this one:
Lecoq: Les objets de la vie domestique. Ustensiles de fer de la cuisine et du 
foyer des origines au XIXe siecle. 1979.

Then, the book by Eufemia von Kudriaffsky 1880 is up on google partially, it is 
fully available here:
http://digital.slub-dresden.de/ppn312509634
It is part of their digital Bibliotheca Gastronomica:
http://digital.slub-dresden.de/sammlungen/kollektionen/projekt-bibliotheca-gastronomica-5/nachTitel/?type=class%252525253Dl&cHash=f615d39f62

E.

Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 18:19:03 +0000 (GMT)
From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] 15th century manuscript cookbook - Salzburg
	lucullarium

I am not sure if this has been mentioned before. 

The university of Salzburg, Austria, has a small collection of historical 
cookbooks online:
http://www.ubs.sbg.ac.at/sosa/lucullarium.htm

One of the entries is a 15th century German manuscript in transcription, modern 
German translation and image files:

http://www.ubs.sbg.ac.at/sosa/lucull/lucull128.htm

http://www.ubs.sbg.ac.at/sosa/lucull/lucull128images.htm

E.

Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 21:14:37 +0000 (GMT)
From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] 15th century manuscript cookbook - Salzburg
	lucullarium

Doc said:
<<< http://www.ubs.sbg.ac.at/sosa/lucull/lucull128.htm

I'm having trouble with the German and with navigating the site.
Is there a title and shelfmark for this manuscript? 
Is the whole document online, or is it just an excerpt? >>>

If you click on the blue passages (links) in the file above, you get a single 
recipe and its modern German translation, see example below for the first 
recipe. There is no file with the whole text, as far as I can see. But I guess 
that the single files for the recipes make up the whole cookbook manuscript.

E.

M I 128, fol. 318r 

http://www.ubs.sbg.ac.at/sosa/lucull/lucull128.htm

Ge brest Swein choepfWildu machen gebrest Sweinkopf von vischen So nyms 
Karpfen oder sleinnen und schup dy schon oder ein parben und flach den auf 
und mach in zw stuckchen und tue in in ein Pfan und gews dar an halb wasser 
und halb wein und daz die prue nur ein vingers hoch uber ge dy visch und 
hab si uber ein gutes fewr und laz wol sieden und salcz si leicht und stupp 
si wan si sein halbenweg ein gesoten. So saig die prue in ein schueschel 
und nym dan die visch und tue die gr?t dar aus und hack das prat ein 
winczigs durch ein ander und tue ez wider in die pfann und gews dye prue 
dar an und laz ein winczigs sieden und die schuepen sewt dan auch und 
streich si durch und gewsss (!) dan olsambt in ein klaini pfann und las sten 
pis es hiert werd und hob es dan uber ein fewr und zukks pald her wider ab 
und flach es auf ein panckch und Sneydcz in ein kallte suesse pr?e. Daz get 
in der vassten f?r gebrest Sweinkopf. 

Falscher Presskopf
Willst du einen Presskopf aus Fischen machen, dann nimm Karpfen oder 
Schleie oder eine Barbe und schuppe sie gut. Schneide sie auf, zerst?ckle 
sie und gib sie in eine Pfanne. Dann gib halb Wasser, halb Wein dazu, so 
dass die Fl?ssigkeit nur einen Finger breit ?ber die Fische geht. Stell sie 
auf das Feuer und lass sie k?cheln. Gib Salz und ein wenig Mehl dazu, wenn 
sie fast gar sind. Dann gie? die Sauce in eine Sch?ssel, nimm die Fische 
aus der Pfanne, entferne die Gr?ten und hack die Fischst?cke ganz fein. 
Dann gib die Masse wieder in die Pfanne, gie? die Sauce dazu und lass sie 
ganz kurz k?cheln. Die Schuppen koche auch, passiere sie und gib sie in die 
Sauce. Dann gib die Masse in eine kleine Pfanne und lass sie ruhen, bis sie 
fest wird. Gib sie wieder aufs Feuer, aber nur kurz, dann schneide die 
Masse auf einem Brett auf und gib es in kalte s??e Sauce. Das kann man in 
der Fastenzeit an Stelle von Presskopf zubereiten.

Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 21:13:48 +0000 (GMT)
From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] I got the n?tzlich bouchlin

Just a quick note: I managed (finally) to get my hands on photocopies of the 1495 n?tzlichs bouchlin von der speis, a small (10-page) dietetiocf incunabula print (printer is Albrecht Kunne, Memmingen). It's not a terribly exciting text - bog-standard humoral pathology. But it should be interesting if you do late period German. 

Giano 

Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 21:20:41 +0000 (GMT)
From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ain n?tzlichs buochlin von der speis des menschen
	1495

[A useful small book about the food of man, 1495]

<< I got the n?tzlich bouchlinJust a quick note: I managed (finally) to get my 
hands on photocopies of the 1495 n?tzlichs bouchlin von der speis, a small 
(10-page) dietetiocf incunabula print (printer is Albrecht Kunne, Memmingen). 
It's not a terribly exciting text - bog-standard humoral pathology. But it 
should be interesting if you do late period German. 

Giano >>

I've got a copy as well. I got it here:

<< Ain n?tzlichs buochlin von der speis des menschen 
[Memmingen] [ca. 1495] Persistente Identifier (Werk): 
urn:nbn:de:bvb:12-bsb00034190-7 Persistente Identifier (Seite): 

http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0003/bsb00034190/image_1 >>

E.

Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 19:13:07 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Die "K?chenmeisterei" Das Kochbuch im
	Medienwechsel

Has anyone seen this volume?
I came across it tonight.
Die "K?chenmeisterei" Das Kochbuch im Medienwechsel

Bachelorarbeit, 2009, 80 Seiten

Preis: 29,90 EUR (eBook), 39,90 EUR (Buch)

A portion can be seen at:
http://www.grin.com/e-book/148763/die-kuechenmeisterei?partnerid=googlebooks

Johnnae

Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 00:00:57 -0500
From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] It's done

It's done. All the recipes from Rumpolt's Ein New Kochbuch are 
transcribed, uploaded, and searchable now. Still need to do some 
into stuff and Kellermeistery at the end, but all 2000+ recipes are 
transcribed now.

Dr. Gloning did this a couple of years ago, but he's never made his 
transcription available.

Still have proofreading and lots of translation to do.

Ranvaig
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cooking_rumpolt/

Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 12:25:20 -0500
From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] It's done

<<< WOW

I started to download the image files some while ago but my computer 
crashed in between >>>

The entire book is available as a PDF, which is easier to work with 
than separate image files.
http://diglib.hab.de/wdb.php?dir=drucke/2-3-oec-2f
On the blue header, look for where it says Download/order CD, and 
click Download.

On my transcription, I've added the page number of that pdf, to make 
it easy to check the transcription to the original.

I started transcribing from the reprinted book, but the PDF is so 
much easier to carry around.

Ranvaig

Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 13:09:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: wheezul at canby.com
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Trude Ellert's Das Kochbuch des Mittelalters:

<<< Hmmm. Appears to be another version of the Harpestrang. Anybody out
there know more about this source? >>>

If one is looking for more information it is important to note that the
author is Trude Ehlert, not Ellert.

She has several books on medieval German cookbooks, including one
co-authored by Thomas Gloning.

Here are 2 possible contenders:

Ehlert, T. (1991). Das Kochbuch des Mittelalters: Rezepte aus alter Zeit.
Zu&#776;rich: Artemis.

or

Ehlert, T. (2010). Ku&#776;chenmeisterei: Edition, U&#776;bersetzung und
Kommentar zweier Kochbuch-Handschriften des 15. Jahrhunderts ; Solothurn S
490 und Ko&#776;ln, Historisches Archiv GB 4 &#778;27 ; mit einem
reprographischen Nachdruck der Ko&#776;lner Handschrift. Frankfurt, M:
Lang.

I think I have one of these at home. If someone else doesn't pipe up I
may have time after the weekend to dig through it.

Katherine

Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 23:04:48 +0200
From: "Susanne Mayer" <susanne.mayer5 at chello.at>
To: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Trude Ellert's Das Kochbuch des Mittelalters has
	to be	Ehlert

Uhh my mistake, sorry for the confusion!!!!!

Katherine is correct I have the Artemis Book

Ehlert, T. (1991). Das Kochbuch des Mittelalters: Rezepte aus alter Zeit.
Zu&#776;rich: Artemis.

Katharina
Drachenwald

Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 02:39:30 -0500
From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A Rumpolt Milestone

<<< Would it be worth webbing your translation even before it's 
complete? Rumpolt is a huge book, and 2/3 of it should include a lot 
of interesting stuff.

Also, if you can web both your translation and the original, linked, 
readers who know German may be able to suggest alternate readings 
and such. >>>

Yes, there is a lot of interesting stuff.  It's been online at the 
Yahoo group, Cooking_Rumpolt, since I started in 2007.  (I needed a 
place to ask my stupid questions without drowning this list). It 
includes both my transcription and my translation, and a link to the 
facsimile, to check the transcription), to make it easy to check.   I 
have had help from quite a few people proofreading it over the years. 
(Thank you Gwen Cat and Katherine).

The work goes in spurts, and I post each group of recipes as I finish 
them.  It's also a backup, so I can't loose it all.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cooking_rumpolt/files/%20Ein%20New%20Kochbuch/

Anyone is welcome join and download the files, whether or not they 
join the discussion.    It's just a text file at this point.  It 
changes too often to link properly, although I plan to do that 
eventually.

Ranvaig

Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 08:46:17 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Dessert/subtlety ideas

On Mar 6, 2012, at 1:39 AM, Tre wrote:
<<< I'm cooking feast for Drachenwald's Crown Tourney at the end of this  
month. I have most of the menu worked out, but am still lacking a  
subtlety or any kind of dessert. snipped
So, does anyone have an idea for something that might double as a  
medieval birthday cake, while being appropriate for a Crown tourney  
feast? >>>

For German subtleties, we have this one rather splendid illustration
from  Franz Hogenberg., Cologne 1585.
It depicts  Duke Johann Wilhelm's wedding banquet described as
"including a depiction of a table decorated with animals and plants
made of sugar paste (no. 7)."

http://www.archive.org/details/beschreibungdere00gram

Or you can search under
Beschreibung derer F?rstlicher G?ligscher &c. Hochzeit,which turns up
online in the Internet Archive

page n67 shows a credenza to the left of the foldout page.

page n71 is the table with all the subtleties.

Johnnae

Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2014 23:25:58 +0100
From: "Susi Mayer" <susanne.mayer5 at chello.at>
To: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Austrian State Museum Cookery Books

<<< Greetings! From another site there is notice that "The ?stereichisches
Landesmuseum (Austrian State Museum) is working on analysis and open
access of their collection of recipe manuscripts and printed cookbooks
from the 16th to the 20th century (site is in German only):
http://www.alteskochbuch.at/rezeptdatenbank.html "

Enjoy searching!
Alys K. >>>

Just some notes on the  austrian cookbook site you found, which is btw NOT 
from the austrian  state museum but the Upper Austrian County museum 
(Obero(with dots = oe)sterreichisches Landesmuseum), it does have not only 
have recipes but also digitized hand written and (unfortunately not 
diditized) printed cookbooks. Alas all in german.
See Kochbuchhandschriften for handwritten  texts the earliest one of the 87 
they own is from 1646, the oldest  printed one is  from  1552. Balthasar 
Staindl ?Ain k?nstlichs und nutzlichs Kochbuch?, printed in  Augsburg by 
Valentin Ottmar (not digitized).

The link does  sometimes have the whole book as PDF and a link to certain 
transcribed recipes, almost all have links to the images.

http://www.alteskochbuch.at/kochbuchhandschriften.php

There are two more old Austrian cookbook sites  available: one from the 
university of Salzburg and one from the Universit of Graz:

This is the link to the University of Salzburg's (County Salzburg) 
"Lucullarium", the old cookbook page:

http://www.ubs.sbg.ac.at/sosa/lucullarium.htm

The oldest one is from the 15c, here the link to the transcribed recipes, 
there are imagefiles available of the cookbook pages

http://www.ubs.sbg.ac.at/sosa/lucull/lucull128.htm

And this is the Link to the University Library of the University  of Graz 
(in Styria) again to handwritten (oldest 2nd half of 15c. MS1609, link has a 
glossar ) and printed (1688 earliest only the image files lead to a valid 
link) textes.

Her are links to the glossar for each text, and transcriptions of various 
recipes:
http://sosa2.uni-graz.at/sosa/druckschriften/dergedeckteTisch/handschriften.php

Link with detailed information and imagefiles to the whole book:
http://sosa2.uni-graz.at/sosa/katalog/katalogisate/1609.html

for the printed version you have to click on the book title to find the 
glossar and a further link to the full text on Thomas Gloning pages:
http://sosa2.uni-graz.at/sosa/druckschriften/dergedeckteTisch/drucke/ub-sosa-kochbuch1688.php

http://sosa2.uni-graz.at/sosa/druckschriften/dergedeckteTisch/drucke/ub-sosa-kochbuch1688-rezeptregister.pdf

Ein Koch- Und Artzney-Buch. Gedruckt zu Gr?tz/ Bey denen Widmanstetterischen 
Erben 1686
http://www.uni-giessen.de/gloning/tx/graz2.htm

http://sosa2.uni-graz.at/sosa/druckschriften/dergedeckteTisch/drucke.php

the do have  a link to a digitized Scappi version (Venedig: Alessandro de' 
Vecchi 1622) also:
http://sosa2.uni-graz.at/sosa/druckschriften/dergedeckteTisch/Kochbuch_Scappi/flash.html

and two french books from 1660 and 1655:
Lune, Pierre de: Le nouveau Cuisinier

http://sosa2.uni-graz.at/sosa/druckschriften/dergedeckteTisch/drucke/ub-sosa-koch-pierredelune.php

and the: Le pastissier francois, here only image files are available:
http://sosa2.uni-graz.at/sosa/druckschriften/dergedeckteTisch/I19964/

all in german, except the imagefiles of the french and italian Cookbook,

Have fun

maybe another link worth browsing :
http://www.literature.at/yearindex.alo

Austrian books (handwritten and printed, digitized):

before 1500:
49 texts, including various  "Sammelhandschriften" = collections of textes, 
mostly in latin, can include medicinal and or cooking textes also

1500-1600:

31 texts, again including collections with medical textes in latin

1600-1699

40 texts, which includes a handwritten Arzeybuch, a french - english 
dictionary from 1699 and a facsimily print from 1680 on german grammar 
written in English called the High Dutch Minerva from the Bodleian Library

Katharina
Ad Flumen Caerulum
(YES, on the blue river DOES mean on the the blue DANUBE actually, :-))
Drachenwald, Vienna / Austria

Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2013 07:07:39 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Austrian State Museum Cookery Books

On Dec 5, 2013, at 6:25 AM, Elise Fleming wrote:
<<< Greetings! From another site there is notice that "The ?stereichisches 
Landesmuseum (Austrian State Museum) is working on analysis and open 
access of their collection of recipe manuscripts and printed cookbooks 
from the 16th to the 20th century (site is in German only):
http://www.alteskochbuch.at/rezeptdatenbank.html "
Enjoy searching! 
Alys K. >>>

According to the initial page, the earliest is 1646 (von 1646) for the 
database of recipes taken from the manuscripts.

Here's some more info. Google Translate works pretty well.
The library has 87 handwritten cookbooks from the period from 1646 to the 
20th Century.

The recipe database of the library of the Upper Austrian Provincial Museum 
contains original recipes from the handwritten cookbooks of her collection 
from 1646 to the 20th Century.
Please note that this database is emerging, it is constantly being expanded.
The database contains:
The original recipe name
The modernized recipe name
The assignment to a division of food
A list of the main ingredients
The complete transcription of the recipe text (sporadically!)
The complete transfer in contemporary language and units of measure 
(planned)
The pictorial representation of the original text (in progress)
The source of the recipe (Cookbook detection by signature and page number)
------
The printed collection is described here:

The oldest printed cookbook library comes from, 1552. It is Balthasar 
Staindls "Ain k?nstlichs and nutzlichs cookbook," printed at Augsburg by 
Valentin Ottmar.

The next volume that is featured seems to be 1718.

Certainly worth a browse.

Johnnae

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 14:34:50 -0600
From: "TerryDecker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] What other sour seasonings are covered by
	German"essig"?

"Essig" specifically and modernly is a reference to acetic acid, vinegar, 
and acetates.  It might be stretched to verjuice dialectically, but the 
general term for verjuice is "der Sa:uer" and may also appear as 
"Sa:uerwasser," "Sa:uerbrennen," or "Sa:uerwein."  All liquid unripened 
fruit souring agents can be described as "unreiben Obstsaft" and can be made 
specific by adding the type of fruit to the phrase (unreiben Apfelsaft, for 
example).

Lemons and oranges were probably available to the wealth in Germany by the 
16th Century as there is at least one Fugger recipe that has lemon as a 
major ingredient.

Sour cream is "der Sauerrahm."

In some of the dialects, "Sauer" can refer to vinegar or yeast.

Bear

-----Original Message----- 

Giano replied to my question about vinegar vs. verjuice with:
<<< As to interpreting German recipes, it is important to keep in mind essig 
does not always mean vinegar at all, though. Any sour seasoning could be 
given that name. I assume in most cases it means vinegar, but I can't be 
sure, and there are cases where it clearly doesn't. >>>

So what other items besides vinegar and possibly verjuice might be meant by 
"essig"?

Probably not lemon or orange juice, since until very late they probably 
weren't that available in Germany.

Sour cream?

This is a good example of my comment on the problem of using translations to 
try to count the uses of vinegar vs. verjuice. :-). Sigh.

Thanks,
  Stefan
=======================

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 16:03:20 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] What other sour seasonings are covered by
	German	"essig"?

On Feb 20, 2014, at 2:42 PM, Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com> wrote:
<<< So what other items besides vinegar and possibly verjuice might be meant by "essig"?

Probably not lemon or orange juice, since until very late they probably weren't that available in Germany. >>>

A quick search in medieval cookery.com turns up both German orange and lemon recipes.

oranges in Das Kuchbuch der Sabina Welserin
(Germany, 16th century - V. Armstrong, trans.)

92 If you would preserve bitter oranges in honey

184 To make a warm dish with bitter oranges

lemons in Das Kuchbuch der Sabina Welserin
(Germany, 16th century - V. Armstrong, trans.)

69 A pastry from a capon

191 To prepare a pike in a Hungarian sauce

201 How to prepare a capon with lemons

Johnnae

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 23:23:16 -0500
From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] What other sour seasonings are covered by
	German "essig"?

A quick search in medieval cookery.com turns up both German orange 
and lemon recipes.

Rumpolt has very many mentions of oranges and lemons.  Both sweet and 
sour lemons, and salted lemons.  When I have time, I'll pull up a 
list.  My impression is that they are mentioned more in the high 
status menus, but I'd have to look to be sure.  While they would have 
been imported, it seems to have been a pretty common import.

I guess I've assumed that essig was always vinegar, but I haven't 
seen anything that would seem otherwise.  I'll take a look at Grimm.

Rumpolt has many mentions of verjuice, along with the recipe for making it.

Ranvaig

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 08:16:10 +0000 (GMT)
From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] What other sour seasonings are covered	by
	German"essig"?

The Niederdeutsches Kochbuch (aka Wolfenb?ttel MS) describes cakes made of dried, crushed crabapple or sloe as "dry vinegar". Crabapples also feature in other sources and it is not clear to me whether they are talking of juice that is fermented and acidified, or whether they just use the sour juice or crushed apples. That would be something like verjuice, but I'm just sopeculating here as yet.

There are also recipes for using powdered grape pips infused with vinegar to make an 'instant' version. I haven't tried it, but I doubt any flavour derived will owe much to the vinegar. 

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 19:31:49 -0500
From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] What other sour seasonings are covered by
	German"essig"?

<<< It might be stretched to verjuice 
dialectically, but the general term for verjuice 
is "der Sa:uer" and may also appear as 
"Sa:uerwasser," "Sa:uerbrennen," or "Sa:uerwein." >>>

In Rumpolt, verjuice is called "Agrast", and it 
was stored with the sour grapes, which were 
called "Agrast Beren" and also used in recipes. 
I wasn't positive about the translation until I 
found the recipe for making Agrast, which is 
pretty clear.

<<< All liquid unripened fruit souring agents can be 
described as "unreiben Obstsaft" and can be made 
specific by adding the type of fruit to the 
phrase (unreiben Apfelsaft, for example). >>>

Rumpolt uses "unzeitige"  untimely or early for 
unripen fruit. "Nim~ vnzeitige Trauben/ die hart 
seyn" Take unripe grapes that are hard.

<<< Or for unripe grain: "gr?nem Samen" literally 
green grain, or "gr?ne N??" unripe walnuts. >>>

Apples are a very common ingredient in Rumpolt. 
An apple sauce described as sour, has vinegar 
added.  The only reference to sour apples "saur 
Epffel" is in the winemaking section.

<<< Lemons and oranges were probably available to 
the wealth in Germany by the 16th Century as 
there is at least one Fugger recipe that has 
lemon as a major ingredient. >>>

I'm writing a separate message about oranges and lemons in Rumpolt.

<<< Sour cream is "der Sauerrahm." >>>

Rumpolt uses "sauren Rahm".

Overall, Rumpolt has a large number of dishes 
described as sour.  Vinegar is most common, but 
also verjuice, sour orange juice, and lemon 
juice.  Essig (vinegar) usually is not described, 
but Weinessig and Bieressig are mentioned.

In one place Rumpolt says "for you are not always 
in wine land/ and it is often as good to cook 
with the beer vinegar/ as with the wine vinegar". 
And "Have you no wine vinegar/ then take beer 
vinegar/", "If you are in a beer area/ then take 
beer vinegar and beer" instead of "Essig".

The section on making "Essig" describes using 
either wine or beer, but implies that wine 
vinegar is more usual.  And also "Essig" from 
unripe grapes or from roasted barley.  No mention 
of cider vinegar.

How far north were winegrowing areas in period?

Ranvaig

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:23:12 -0500 (EST)
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] What other sour seasonings are covered by
	German"essig"?

ranvaig at columbus.rr.com writes:
<<< In Rumpolt, verjuice is called "Agrast", >>>

This sounds like a corruption of the Latin agresta. which I believe was  
also the standard term in southern France and Italy.

Jim  Chevallier
(http://www.chezjim.com/) www.chezjim.com

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 23:47:36 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Translated German cooking manuscripts?

<<< Where are the English translations of the medieval German cooking
manuscripts? Are there really none published?

Madhavi >>>

The Cookbook of Meister Eberhard\
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-MANUSCRIPTS/Eberhard-art.html

Inntalkochbuch
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-MANUSCRIPTS/Inntal-art.html

Ein kochbuch aus dem Archiv des Deutschen Ordens
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-MANUSCRIPTS/Konigsberg-art.html

Das Kochbuck von Sabina Welserin
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/Cookbooks/Sabrina_Welserin.html

Ein Buch von guter speise
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/Cookbooks/BuchVonGuterSpise/buch.html

The links I have to Gwen Cat's work on Rumpolt are broken.

Bear

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 23:51:28 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Translated German cooking manuscripts?

The translation is a little rough in places but it is serviceable.  And the 
price beats the Adams translation.  We've argued some of the translation 
points on the list before.

Bear

<<< http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/Cookbooks/BuchVonGuterSpise/buch.html

This is one translation but I have not had the time to delve into it to see
How well done it is.

Magnus >>>

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 02:38:13 -0500
From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Translated German cooking manuscripts?

<<< Where are the English translations of the medieval German cooking manuscripts? Are there really none published?

I used to have a small perfect-bound English translation of Guter Spise (I think) but I can't find it anywhere and I can't find it anywhere online to
buy another copy. Was that an SCA-made book? >>>

I think you mean Daz buch von guter spise translated by Melitta Weiss Adamson.  Krems 2000.  Reprint 2004.

http://www.poisonpenpress.com/
I got it from Poison Pen Press, who don't seem to have it any more.  Neither Amazon or Abe books list it.  My copy does not have an ISBN.

It was not an SCA book.  In fact she is quite scathing about the SCA translation by Alia Atlas, which does have some issues, but for the most part is good enough to cook from.  IMO Ms Adamson is not perfect either and also occasionally goes 
astray when her lack of experience with medieval cooking shows.

I find it difficult to work with, because they don't have the German and the translation on facing pages, but it's quite a scholarly book, comparing multiple editions of the original.

Johnnae published a German bibliography in the 2011 Q1 issue of The Gauntlet, that doesn't appear to be online any more. (Her articles are wonderful, and always worth saving).  Other issues are at: http://www.cynnabar.org/citadel

And my own translation of Rumpolt is in the file section at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cooking_rumpolt/
I've finished all the menus and recipes, but some of the introduction is not translated yet.

And I am working on a translation of the Nurnberg Kuchemaistrey 1490
but its still early and not available yet.

As others have noted, Gwen Cat's site seems to be down.  It's archived at
https://web.archive.org/web/20070706050734/http://clem.mscd.edu/~grasse

Ranvaig

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 08:08:11 +0000 (UTC)
From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Translated German cooking manuscripts?

There is very, very little, sadly. I'm working on a book about German Renaissance cooking that may remedy this somewhat, but the manuscript tradition is almost entirely published 'in country', with German translations. 

In the meantime, I've done a fair bit of feasts based on German recipes. I may be able to help with specific questions.

Giano

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 06:58:57 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Translated German cooking manuscripts?

Besides the sources already mentioned, take a look at:
http://medievalcookery.com/etexts.html?Germany

My bibliography on German cookery is going to be published as part of a series by a well known culinary guild. Hopefully, in 2015.

Johnnae

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 14:38:33 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
From: <lilinah at earthlink.net>
To: SCA-Cooks <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Translated German cooking manuscripts?

Until Giano completes his masterful work, i have several of his earlier translation, three 15th c. cookbooks which he says are flawed, on my website.

-- Cookbook of Master Eberhard (Das Kochbuch des Meisters Eberhard)
-- Cookbook found in the Archive of the Teutonic Order (Ein Kochbuch aus dem Archiv des Deutschen Ordens)
-- Old Recipes from the Bavarian Inn River Valley (Alte Kochrezepte aus dem bayrischen Inntal)

http://home.earthlink.net/~al-tabbakhah/#cookbooks

Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2014 22:02:40 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Translated German cooking manuscripts?

I list a number of real books here in my bibliography. Did find it still online.
http://www.midrealm.org/pentamere/pdfs/gauntlet2011q1.pdf

If you read German, I'd suggest buying the Tupperware editions. Highly collectable but not cheap.

Otherwise, try the volume Beyond Bratwurst which was published just this year; it's not a cookbook but a food history. Fairly good one.

Johnnae

On Dec 13, 2014, at 9:25 PM, Jim and Andi <jimandandi at cox.net> wrote:
<<< I meant "published" as in real-life books that I can order. Paper books with ISBNs. I'm Solstice shopping, darnit! Thank you everyone for your replies. It really seems like German medieval cooking has been so overlooked which sucks, because for SCA feast purposes medieval German cuisine is possibly the most approachable for modern American palates. 

Madhavi >>>

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2014 17:53:05 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Daz buch von guter spise by Adamson, Melitta

Devra has asked that the following information be passed onto everyone

=========
To be passed on to interested parties...  The book doesn't have an ISBN because it is actually a serial, part of a series. Paypal is the best way to reach them, though I have no idea if they will sell a single copy; it would be more expensive than what I paid...

Daz buch von guter spise
Adamson, Melitta
9783-901094-12-5

Medium Aevum Quotidianum (MAQ)
Kornermarkt 13
A-3500 Krems
AUSTRIA

jaritzg at gmail.com

Jaritz, Gerhard is contact person (email above) - he's the person you send the Paypal funds to.

phone +43/2732-84793

fax +43/2732-84793-1

This is also where I got "Tender Meat Under the Saddle" - essays on Hungarian food - can supply ISSN for this if desired.

Devra
=========

Johnnae

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2014 21:37:18 -0800
From: Wanda pease <wandap at hevanet.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Daz buch von guter spise by Adamson, Melitta

This place is easy to deal with.  No English problem.

Regina

<<< Devra has asked that the following information be passed onto everyone

To be passed on to interested parties...  The book doesn't have an ISBN because it is actually a serial,  part of a series. Paypal is the best way to reach them, though I have no idea if they will sell a single copy; it would be more expensive than what I paid...

Daz buch von guter spise >>>

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2015 16:54:32 -0700
From: James Prescott <prescotj at telusplanet.net>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Reading Welserin

To the cooks list:

I'm reading Welserin (1553) (Armstrong translation), and have discovered 
a few interesting things.  Yes, these have been posted before, but 
perhaps not recently, and they are interesting enough that they deserve 
a re-post.

- roux (flour cooked in fat, as the basis for a sauce, though not called 
'roux') in recipe 11 (i.e. 1553, much earlier than de la Varenne) [yes, 
this was noted in 2000]

- a recipe for lutefisk (recipe 33) "To prepare dried cod, from the 
gracious Lord of Lindau, who was Bishop in Constance" (on the border 
with Switzerland, a long way from Scandinavia) [yes, this was noted in 1999]

- a rather bizarre subtlety (recipe 198), which sounds like an imitation 
of a raised torture wheel (in this case mostly made of jelly) on a pole, 
with a cooked fish rather than a human impaled on top.  The author says 
"This is an attractive table centerpiece." [yes, this was noted in 1997]

- Bohemian peas (recipe 149) "It is a good and lordly dish."  So much 
for cold pea soup being only for peasants.

Thorvald

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2015 03:04:35 -0500
From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Reading Welserin

<<< Phillipine Welser, wife to Archduke Ferdinand II of Austria, whose 
cookbook dates to about 1545.

Meringue appears in Elinor Fettiplace as "white biskit bread" making 
it early 17th Century.

And I would be interested in seeing the recipes. >>>

From Rumpolt.  I wouldn't call this meringue, but it is white 
biscuit.  There are also recipes with whole eggs, and with almonds or 
sugar.

Gebackens  52. Take white of eggs/ and take a fair new pot to it/ and 
fair white flour/ make a batter in the pot/ and beat it well with a 
wooden spoon/ take anise and coriander with it/ make it well sweet 
with white sugar/ baste with a little rose water/ and a little salt/

you can also take with it an egg yolk or two/ that is fresh. Take a 
wafer/ that is wide and long/ take the batter from the pot with a 
wooden spoon onto it (the oblat)/ push it quickly in an oven/ that 
the the batter does not bubble/ like this they will nicely puff in 
height/

when it is baked/ then take it out/ and let it cool down for awhile/ 
cut it from the length about half a finger thick/ lay then on a clean 
paper/ or on an oblat/ and push again in (the) oven/ that is cooled 
down/ turn it over on both sides/ that it dries out nicely/ then it 
will be good and tender.  And one calls it Piscoten (biscuit or 
biscotti) of eggwhite.

Ranvaig

<the end>