patterns-msg – 4/19/10

Sources for clothing patterns. Altering mundane patterns.

NOTE: See also the files: clothing-FAQ, clothing-bib, clothing-books-msg, cotehardies-msg, Houppelande-art, sewing-msg, clothng-forms-msg.

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

<date lost. Sometime before 1990 - Stefan>
Gentle lords and ladies,

The best pattern I have found for a coif/hood for rapier combat is
the head for the rabbit/cat/bear costume (it comes in adult sizes)
that Simplicity makes. I recommend adding a few inches to the
overlap under the chin and a collar to tuck it securely into
the jacket or vest. I hope this helps.

Gwenhwyfar Lann ni Rodhri (Jennifer H. Varner) <Z4646595 at SFAUSTIN.BITNET>

From: daemon at tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Admin)
Date: 7 May 90 08:55:30 GMT
Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism

  Greetings to those Gentles on the Rialto.

 Gloves:
 Milady, An Excellent Pattern Exists, It is a Vogue Pattern in a Prom
accesories Set, I have seen the pattern echoed ina pattern set given to me on
period Gloves, so it is a reasonable one, Gloves having beena nemesis of mine
for years...
                                                                -Wraith
                                                 Carolingia, East Kingdom.
                                                A.S. (God only knows)

From: EXPOTECH at applelink.apple.com ("Expotech, Aimee Moran,VCA")
Date: 11 Jul 90 03:54:00 GMT
Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism

Greetings to the Rialto from Gwynnyd of York, on this, the Tenth day of July.
 
Costumer news flash!
 
Both McCalls and Butterick currently have patterns that are nearly perfect
Tudor and Elizabethan dresses. The seaming on these is *not* princess.  They
both have the proper straight seams up the side-fronts with stomacher-like
pieces in the center.
 
Butterick 4563, has a long pointed front stomacher, suitable for Elizabethan
styles.  McCalls 3490 has a shorter point in front like the earlier Tudor
styles.  Both come in three-size sets,for maximum group use.
 
To make usable, shorten the waist to natural waistline, square the neckline,
and fill in the back (which is a deep V in both paterns). Skirts can be used
as they are.  Add gorp (i.e.-suitable trim), lace up the back or sides, 
and voila - late period costume! even for the pattern drafting impaired 
like me.
 
I made mine with plastic needlepoint canvas as the stiffening in the stomacher
- worked great.  Just about the right amount of flex.  Has holes for
ventilation.  Can be washed.  Who could ask for more? (OK, so I promise never
to enter the plastic in the A&S competitions.)
 
In service to the Society (if not necessarily THE DREAM(tm)), I remain
 
Gwynnyd of York                    Carol Lynn
Household of the Foundering Fen    Grosse Pointe Park, MI
Middle                             expotech at applelink.apple.com

From: data at er3.rutgers.edu (Rosemary Goodheart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Medieval Pattern Needed!!
Date: 11 Oct 1994 03:40:23 -0400
Organization: Rutgers University

craig_polson at radius.com (Craig Polson) writes:

>As an aside, what do people think of the McCall's pattern #6096? Good as
>is? Needs modifications? Really lame? Just curious....(although one
>problem I see already is that it's called Medieval Magic when the outfits
>seem to me like they're more renaissance...) Thanks!

>-Willow (Craig's wife)

I use this pattern myself, and you're right, it's more Elizabethan than anythinanything else! (At least the dress with the puffs on top of the sleeves
is.)  If you are using this dress, here are the alterations I recommend:
	1) The pattern is cut very large, so take it in to fit your body.  And
forget the boning... it's painful and does absolutely nothing.
	2) If you want a bum roll, don't use the one in the pattern; it's
shaped wrong.  Bum rolls should be crescent-shaped.
	3) The skirt is big enough to put a farthingale (hoop skirt) under.
	4) Drop the neckline in the front by determining where the shoulders
join the front, then scooping down lower in the area where the shoulders
_don't_ touch the front.  (This takes some effort; make a practice one first)
	5) With a _lot_ of effort you can slash the sleeves...It looks 
incredible, but will take you forever.
	6) Consider splitting the skirt down the front and wearing with a fancy
underskirt.  Just use the skirt part of the pattern to make the underskirt,
with a drawstring waist, and only use your facy fabric for the front panel.
You can save lots of money by using cheap fabric in the back of the underskirt,
where no one will ever see it.

By the way, if anyone in the Settmour Swamp area in the East Kingdom has seen
a lady in a black and red, slashed sleeved, hoop-skirted Elizabethan gown, 
that was me, and I used this pattern to make the dress!

Good luck!!
					-Rosemary
-- 
Rosemary Goodheart                                        YYY     YYY
data at eden.rutgers.edu                                     | |YYYYY| |
                             at )--->----;-----              |_|__n__|_|

From: nataliae at aol.com (Natalia E)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cloaks
Date: 15 Nov 1994 22:45:04 -0500

There is a Very Easy Very Vogue 7110 pattern for a woman's cloak, which
works perfectly fine for a simple cloak pattern.  I made both my lord's
and my own cloak from it and I just learned how to sew this year.  Try it
out and you might find it will be just right.  Good luck.

Nataliia

From: connect at aol.com (CONNECT)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: REQ: Easy Garb Patterns
Date: 30 Nov 1994 10:00:25 -0500

debra at hp1.ep.cursci.com (Debra Cebulski) writes:
I am a newbie in the Barony of Carolingia and I need some easy patterns  
(Vogue, Simplicity, etc.) for garb. 
---
Good My Lady,

I can not give you specific pattern numbers, but hopefully can offer you
some help in finding what you need. If you just want simple looking garb,
try this: find a skirt pattern that is very full, like a full circle.
Usually, this is done with what is called a gore. The pattern piece is cut
to look like an A-shape if you fold it out flat. Next, find a peasant
blouse pattern, either as a peasant blouse pattern or as a clown costume.
Just cut off the clown pattern at the hip.  

This gets you the shirt and skirt. If you want a bodice, you can make one
by altering a vest pattern, but that can be trickier. It should be doable
by a beginner, but you need to be clear on what you're doing, because
you'll be altering the lines a little.(Shortening the length of the vest,
possibly, depending on the pattern you buy.)  You can't use darts if you
want to be authentic.

Another thing to take into account, don't buy any prints. Try to stick
with cotton blends in solids, or in patterns that are actually woven into
the fabric.  Muslin is good, and cheap too. <grin>  Wash everything before
you cut, too.

If you're looking for male garb, there's a set of instructions available
from a place called Rainments. The pattern is called Drafting and
Constructing a Simple Doublet and Trunkhose of the Spanish Renaissance. I
don't know the complexity level of this pattern, but perhaps someone else
knows.  Rainments can be reached via email at 72437.674 at compuserve.com.

Another book I'd recommend is Elizabethan Costuming for 1550-1580 by Janet
Winter and Carolyn Savoy. This is assuming you're interested in late
SCA-period clothing. If not, just ignore this. <grin>

Best of luck to you...I am coming off the newbie stage to just the
beginner. ;)

Pattie Rayl

From: mcfee at apsicc.aps.edu (Karl von Schattenburg / Chuck Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Puffy sleeves
Date: 6 Dec 1994 05:14:07 GMT
Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools, Albuquerque, NM, USA

In article <abasu.786662616 at atl1>, abasu at atl1.america.net (Asok K. Basu) writes:
>Hi, I'm trying to get shirts that have the puffy sleeves 
>common in Shakespearean plays and other plays of 
>the time. I think they're called Juliette sleeves. Specifically, I
>need white and black colors, and maybe green and brown. If you've
>seen the movie "Interview with the Vampire", then you'll know
>what kind of shirts I'm talking about. I'd prefer they have real
>buttons, instead of threading for lacing the shirt up. If anyone has any
>information about where I can get this type of clothing, please let me know.
>My e-mail address is : abasu at america.net.  Thank you.

Greetings and Salutations!

It's unclear from your letter whether you want to make tehm or buy them. If
you want to buty then, there are ads in _TI_. If you want to make them, and
you need a pattern, a simple peasant shirt pattern can be found at your 
local fabric store. If it's not labeled as a peasant shirt, check in the
Halloween costume patterns. You xcan have real buyttons, but use the
shank-style, as they're more period. If you want tro explore this period a
little more, a good resource for the beginner is _Elizabethan Costuming_ by
Janet Winter and Carolyn Savoy. Available in ads in _TI_. 

Clarice

From: iys6lri at mvs.oac.ucla.edu (Lori Iversen)
Newsgroups: alt.sewing,rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: costume patterns
Date: 7 Feb 1995 20:03:53 GMT
Organization: ucla

ches at io.com (ches) says:
>Cheryl Stavis (CherylA at ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>> ...I'm looking for costume sources other 
>> than folkwear of past patterns. I'm especially interested in Reniassance 
>> costumes. I've never made my own patterns, so pre-drawn patterns would 
>> be best, but I'll take any help I can get!
>> Thank You.
>> cheryla at ix.netcom.com
>
>If you are lucky enough to have a Barnes and Noble Book store near by go 
>there and order Patterns for Theatrical Costumes by Katherine Strand 
>Holkeboer  isbn 0-89676-125-8.  [small snip of where-to-find-it].
>
>Ciao
>Ches

Alexis here!

Holkeboer would be my first suggestion too.  You don't mention how
advanced a seamstress you are, but you might also want to try
"Patterns of Fashion," by Janet Arnold (who did the costumes for the
BBC "Elizabeth R.").  It's a three-book series; you'll want the first
one (with the maroon cover), covering 16th- and 17th-century garb.
Arnold has essentially dissected actual clothing from the period
and drafted patterns based on those pieces.  I made a pair of 
pluderhosen for my SCA brother from the Nils Sturtevant pattern;
they were really easier than they looked but they did break (count
'em) eighteen heavy-duty needles on an industrial machine.  And they
looked great (nobody had ever seen butt-hugging slops before!).  I
also attempted the Velvet Dress with the Big Hanging Sleeves (I forget
who wore it originally); it didn't turn out quite as well, but then I
only gave myself 24 hours to make it (it *looked* impressive but
didn't fit quite right).  Arnold only gives the patterns with notes
about what trim went where and where the pleats went, etc.  So if
you have good engineering instincts the patterns in her books are
definitely do-able.

Best of luck!

Alexis Vladescu                          Lori Iversen
WyvernHo-ette                            (IYS6LRI at mvs.oac.ucla.edu)
Altavia, CAID                            The Valley, CA

From: odlin at reed.edu (Iain Odlin)
Newsgroups: alt.sewing,rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: costume patterns
Date: 8 Feb 1995 17:24:34 GMT

Alexis suggests, as so many do, Janet Arnold's books, "Patterns of
Fashion", to which I add:

  A caveat:  Arnold makes a number of glaring mistakes and generally doesn't
  provide enough info on the garb she depicts to reconstruct it accurately
  (check the furred gown, for a quick example).  And, despite the title,
  the book really isn't about reconstructing garments.  It's more a picture
  book about what exists still.

  So, if you are going to use it as a source for patterns, be sure to also get
  ahold of "The Annotated Arnold," available from Raiments (who advertise in
  TI).  It adds some invaluable info that Arnold leaves out.  It doesn't
  help much for reconstructing either, but it points out multitudinous
  grevious errors on Arnold's part which helps immensely.  (I spent three
  days trying to reconstruct one of the sleeves she depicted completely
  incorrectly, for example.  "The Annotated Arnold" showed me exactly what
  was going wrong.)

  Good luck.
 ------------------------- Iain Odlin, odlin at reed.edu -------------------------
                      42 Clifton Street, Portland ME 04101

From: sniderm at mcmail2.cis.McMaster.CA (Mike Snider)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: cotehardies (was Searching for Japanese Garb)
Date: 3 Apr 1995 13:12:29 -0400
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.

There is a lot of controversy about princess seams versus running all 
the pannels from the shoulder when constructing a cotehardie. Both have 
reliable documentation behind them. I do mine from the shoulder in the 
manner of the Herjolfsnes finds. (See Buried Norsemen at Herfolfsnes, 
post me if you need an ISBN) One of the best ways to make the pattern, 
however, is with duct tape. Put on an old tee-shirt and have a friend 
wrap your torso tightly with the tape. Mark the seams and cut tourself 
out of it. Spread the pannels flat and regularize the pannels so they are 
symetrical. Flare the pannels from the hips to give yourself as much 
fullness as you can. After the garment is constructed, put it on inside 
out and take in the seams so it fits snuggly. This is a quickie 
description, but I hope it helps. I have made several cotehardies this 
way with considerable success.
  Good Luck and post me directly if I can help you futher with documentation.

  Elizabeth Cadfan

From: jahugi at xmission.xmission.com (John-H)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: cotehardie patterns?
Date: 21 Apr 1995 22:28:40 -0600

ABLockwood (ablockwood at aol.com) wrote:
: I am looking for a pattern for a womans cotehardie that would be fairly
: easy to fit and construct, something beyond a 3-inch-square diagram with
: directions to just cut it out and sew it together...
: Any help would be appreciated. Please e-mail me at ABLockwood at aol.com,
: because I am not always able to read the Rialto...

: -Ashley Lockwood
: (tentatively Alienora)

	I have a pattern for Cotehardies & Sideless Surcoats, 14th & 15th C.
This pattern is from Mediaeval Miscellanea, called Period Patterns no. 21.
The sizes are 6-20, but be sure to measure for the correct size! (Learned 
the hard way) Unfortunately, I don't have an address for the pattern.  I 
bought it at an Estrella War a couple of years ago.  I don't know if I've 
helped you any, but good luck!
		   Ethereal O. Trewren /Shire of Cote du Ciel /Atenveldt
Janice Hugie <jahugi at xmission.com>

The following information I retrieved off an Elizabethian Costuming WWW
page on 5/4/95.
    Stefan li Rous

Some Patterns Which Work
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are standard patterns which are close enough to period to be easily
altered to suit. There are also custom patterns for period clothing. These
custom patterns can best be ordered from specialty sewing shops; try your
yellow pages for one near you. Some of these patterns may be out of
production.

Bodice

Adult: McCall's 5064 - Close up CF V more, alter neckline, no collar, take dats in on pattern, no tabs, no tie back, raise armhole underarm.
       Vogue 1000 - basic fitting pattern, use no darts

Child: Butterick 6932 - View A, change W in front to a V, lacing not buttons, scoop neckline

Skirt

Adult: Vogue 1723 or 9882 - lengthen hem.
       McCall's 4798 - View A, lengthen hem, no pocket.
       Simplicity 7561 View 3 or 7021 View 2 - lengthen hem, elasticize waist or lacing.

Child: McCall's 6012 - View B lower to ankle length

Chemise or Bag Shirt

Adult: McCall's 4897 - View A.
       McCall's 5993 - Shorten cuff to less than 1 inch.
       Simplicity 9162 - View 3 with View 2 ruffle.

Child: Butterick 6730 - make sleeves long
       Simplicity 8943 - View 4, elasticize wrists, cut to blouse length
       McCall's 6012 - View B

Jerkin

Adult: Butterick 4484 - no pockets, straight waist, lace closure.

Child: Butterick 6605 - lengthen vest and straighten bottom.

Shirts

Adult Nobility: Simplicity 9929 - View 4 CF closed up yoke, lengthen and widen sleeves, add cuff and stand up collar with ties at neck and wrists.

Adult Peasants: Simplicity 7574 - View 1, no ruffle, lengthen to crotch, may slit yoke to sternum
                Butterick 6731 - no sash, make sleeves longer
                Butterick 3194 - as is

Child: Butterick 6730: As Butterick 6731.
       Simplicity 8943 - View 1, no ruffles, shorten to shirt length

Breeches

Adult: Simplicity 7558 - View 3, lengthen to below knee and elasticize
       McCalls 6509 - elasticize knees, no pockets

Child: McCall's 6510 or 5356 - below knee, no pockets
       Simplicity 8502 - lengthen below knee
       Clown pant patterns often work.

Newborns

McCall's 5131 - shoes
Butterick 3317 - Views B and D, lengthen sleeves, use lacing

From: sewinwench at aol.com (SewinWench)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: cotehardie patterns?
Date: 26 Apr 1995 18:59:05 -0400

You can order Period Patterns pattern from this company:

Amazon Vinegar and Pickling Works Drygoods, Ltd.
2218 East 11th Street
Davenport, IA 52803
(319) 322-6800
 
Don't let the name fool you. This is the most fabulous mail order company
in the whole world.
(unsolicited praise)

Hope this helps,
Sarah Seamstitcher
The Sewing Wench
Barony of Iron Mountain
Meridies

From: connect at aol.com (CONNECT)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Designs for Cavalier Clothes
Date: 1 Jun 1995 11:55:14 -0400

Mark Tiller askes:
>>>Could someone suggest books, articles, periodicals etc etc to get
designs for a male cavalier outfit?<<<

Have you checked out the Raiments Catalog? They have a number of patterns
from various times, and you should be able to find something to work.
<grin>

Rainments
PO Box 93095
Pasadena, CA 91109
(818) 797-2723

Email them at 72437.674 at compuserver.com

Yours In Service,
Rosalyn MacGregor of Glen Orchy
Pattie Rayl of Cynnabar

*        Patricia Snyder-Rayl        *  (313) 973-8825

From: vorder at tigger.stcloud.msus.edu (Andrew Vorder Bruegge)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: re: robe pattern
Date: 4 Aug 1995 16:27:29 GMT
Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN

To Deirdre, searching for a pattern.  I belive that the garment for which you search is called in period a "loose gown".  Patterns for several may be found in"Patterns of Fashion, vol III" by Janet Arnold.  The scaled patterns may look 
complicated but this was the first garment which my lord husband patterned and made for himself.  Your lord will look splendid, but don't skimp on the fabric.

Mistress Aidan Morgana Evans, posting from her gracious lord's "wizard mail."

From: Barb at DISTANT-CARAVANS.reno.nv.us (Barbara Morgan)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Question about historical patterns
Date: 23 Aug 1995 00:53:54 GMT
Organization: Great Basin Internet Services, Reno, NV

bj at alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Barbara Jean Kuehl) says:
>From: bj at alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Barbara Jean Kuehl)
>Newsgroups: alt.wedding,soc.couples.wedding
>Subject: Question about historic clothing patterns
>Date: 22 Aug 1995 20:30:32 GMT
>Organization: Information & Media Technologies, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee

BJ was heard to say:
>In preparing the section of the medieval/renaissance faq, I have been
>informed of some good patterns for appropriate medieval and renaissance
>clothing.  These patterns are supposedly available in fabric stores,
>although they may be difficult to locate, and I've been told that they
>are available through several catalog companies such as Raiments,
>Amazon Vinegar & Pickling Works Drygoods, and the Whole Costumer's
>Catalog.  Unfortunately, some people say that the patterns are called
>'Folk Patterns', others call them 'Past Patterns', and still others
>say they care called 'Folkwear Patterns'.
>
>Can someone shed some light on this?  Are these three different brand
>names of patterns?  Is one type available in the stores while another
>in the catalogs?  I have been unable to locate these patterns in any
>local fabric stores, and the only catalog info I have is from Amazon
>V&P Works, and they don't call them by any name at all.
>
>I would like to mention them in the med/ren wedding faq but I'm not
>sure that I would describe them correctly.

Saw Folkwear pattern advertised in Chivalry Sports, 1955 W. Grants Rd.
Suite 230, Tucson, AZ, 85745.  Also thought they carried Period Patterns.

Also, there use to be a company that sold hat patterns call D.L. Designs, 
PO Box 10537, Glendale CA, 91209.  I bought my pattern 5 years ago and
do not know if these folks are still in business.  Nice patterns, good 
instructions.

**A personal CAUTION to those using a pattern for the first time, 
Try cutting it out of an inexpensive piece of fabric like a used sheet,
to be had cheap at 2nd hand stores.  After you sew up the your sheet and 
make any alterations necessary, you can then take that sheet garment
apart and use that as your pattern on your nice material. I learned this
trick the hard way. Sewed a lovely garment out some really classy material
using a pattern for the first time. It was unfortunate that the garment
fit my friend 10 year old when it was completed. 

Amaryllis.
Barb at DISTANT-CARAVANS,reno,nv,us
http://www.greatbasin.com/~caravan/ 

From: noramunro at aol.com (Noramunro)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Question about historical patterns
Date: 23 Aug 1995 09:56:38 -0400

BJ asks
>In preparing the section of the medieval/renaissance faq, I have been
>informed of some good patterns for appropriate medieval and renaissance
>clothing.  These patterns are supposedly available in fabric stores,
>although they may be difficult to locate, and I've been told that they
>are available through several catalog companies such as Raiments,
>Amazon Vinegar & Pickling Works Drygoods, and the Whole Costumer's
>Catalog.  Unfortunately, some people say that the patterns are called
>'Folk Patterns', others call them 'Past Patterns', and still others
>say they care called 'Folkwear Patterns'.
>
>Can someone shed some light on this?  Are these three different brand
>names of patterns?  Is one type available in the stores while another
>in the catalogs?  I have been unable to locate these patterns in any
>local fabric stores, and the only catalog info I have is from Amazon
>V&P Works, and they don't call them by any name at all.

Folkwear Patterns and Past Patterns are two brand names of patterns. 
Folkwear specializes in ethnic/folk costume types of clothing from around
the world - you can get patterns for Kinsale cloaks, small kilts, Afghan
nomads' dresses, Chinese jackets, etc, etc from them.  Folkwear Patterns
are available in some fabric stores, but the only store I know of in the
Washington DC-Metro area that carries them is G Street Fabrics in
Rockville, MD.  I know a lot of SCA merchants also carry them.

Past Patterns are brought to you by the same folks who run Medieval
Miscellanea.  They're carefully researched and produced for clothing from
the Middle Ages and Renaissance and probably later.  Again, you might find
them in a really excellent fabric store, but you'll probably find more SCA
merchants who carry them.  I think I have seen Amazon Drygoods advertising
their costume catalogue as carrying both Folkwear and Past Patterns, but
if the catalog doesn't tell you that plainly, you could trying
calling/writing them and asking.

IN service,
Alianora

From: BRETTWI at IX.NETCOM.COM (Brett Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Question about historical patterns
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 17:00:04 GMT

noramunro at aol.com (Noramunro) wrote:
>BJ asks

<<stuff snipped>>

>Folkwear Patterns and Past Patterns are two brand names of patterns. 
>Folkwear specializes in ethnic/folk costume types of clothing from around
>the world - you can get patterns for Kinsale cloaks, small kilts, Afghan
>nomads' dresses, Chinese jackets, etc, etc from them.  Folkwear Patterns
>are available in some fabric stores, but the only store I know of in the
>Washington DC-Metro area that carries them is G Street Fabrics in
>Rockville, MD.  I know a lot of SCA merchants also carry them.

>Past Patterns are brought to you by the same folks who run Medieval
>Miscellanea.  

With all due respect, my lady, no.  Past Patterns is designed, owned
and operated by a different woman than those of Medieval Miscellanea,
which has a line of patterns called "Period Patterns".  I believe you
may have gotten the names confused, which is easy.  :)

>They're carefully researched and produced for clothing from
>the Middle Ages and Renaissance and probably later. 

With respect to Period Patterns, yes, with respect to Past Patterns,
no.  Past Patterns' thrust is Victorian and onwards, Period Patterns
are made by SCA folk for the SCA.

> Again, you might find
>them in a really excellent fabric store, but you'll probably find more SCA
>merchants who carry them.  I think I have seen Amazon Drygoods advertising
>their costume catalogue as carrying both Folkwear and Past Patterns, but
>if the catalog doesn't tell you that plainly, you could trying
>calling/writing them and asking.

>IN service,
>Alianora

Likewise in service, 
ciorstan macAmhlaidh, CHA, AoA

From: noramunro at aol.com (Noramunro)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Question about historical patterns
Date: 24 Aug 1995 19:30:20 -0400

Ciorstan writes (quoting me):
>>Past Patterns are brought to you by the same folks who run Medieval
>>Miscellanea.  

>With all due respect, my lady, no.  Past Patterns is designed, owned
>and operated by a different woman than those of Medieval Miscellanea,
>which has a line of patterns called "Period Patterns".  I believe you
>may have gotten the names confused, which is easy.  :)

Which is exactly what happened, and is terribly embarrassing since Kitea
(of  _Period_ Patterns) is a friend of mine.  I'm still a bit addlepated
from Pennsic, I fear.  Oops.  Sorry for any unnecessary confusion I might
have generated.

Cheers,
Alianora

From: hamilton at adi.COM
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Poofy shirts
Date: 7 Sep 1995 10:03:42 -0400

Pinacomeus <GYDIAN at mars.superlink.net> asked about poofy shirts.

If you're not worried about strict authenticity (and it sounds like you're
not, terribly), I like the Cheesemaker's Smock from Folkwear.  All the
pieces are rectangles (so it's easy to alter if you're not a 42 Regular), 
and it's easy to put together.  The finished product looks very nice and
is very comfortable.  I recommend using the optional armpit gussets.

You can get the pattern from Amazon Drygoods.  Their address was posted a
few days ago (of course, I don't have it with me, darnit!).  Or maybe someone
you know has one you could borrow.

Angelica Paganelli
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Cindy Hamilton (hamilton at adi.com)             |Angelica Paganelli            |
|Applied Dynamics International                |Casa Salone Rigararsi         |
|3800 Stone School Rd., Ann Arbor, MI  48108   |Shire of Cynnabar, Midrealm   |

From: bcarter at prairienet.org (Barbara J. Carter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Looking for a cloak pattern
Date: 7 Nov 1995 08:50:22 GMT
Organization: Prairienet, the East-Central Illinois Free-Net

Will & Stacy (erichvs at ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: It is a _BUTTERICK_ #6796.  I love this pattern because it has
: "shoulders," which keep it from falling off when it's not fastened.

I suspect this pattern no longer exists, but there's another which I just
made a cloak from, Butterick #3084.  The pattern is a full length cloak,
about the equivalent of 3/4 circle but with shoulders, lined, with or
without a hood.  I actually left out the lining and I'm very happy with
my new cloak, which keeps me pretty warm.

Now, I just have to wait a month for my clasp (Raiments is a tad behind).
:-(  But even without any clasp, it stayed on fairly well!

Barbara
--
bcarter at prairienet.org

From: gina at delphi.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Looking for a cloak pattern
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 23:17:26 -0500

Patricia Long <PLLINHS at uriacc.uri.EDU> writes:
>I don't make a cloak.  Does anyone know of a good pattern out there
>that a just-past-beginner in sewing would be able to use?
 
Greetings milady,
 
	Another pattern you may want to try is VOGUE #7110...rated as
Very Easy, Very Vogue.  It's a nice simple full cape, with or without hood.
It has somewhat fitted shoulders which are simply cut a part of the seam
allowance, and do not require great skill.  If you are a Small to Medium
size you can do the cape with between 4-1/8 to 5 yards of fabric if your
fabric is 54 to 60 inches wide.  You could make this up in a nice wool which
would be warm, and probably wouldn't need to line it unless you felt it
necessary.  To line it, you could simply cut a second set of your chosen
lining fabric and put the two together, right sides together, stitching
down the center fronts, and hem edges, and then turn it right side out
through the neck hole and add your hood last.
 
	Hope this helps.
 
Ever in Service,
Ingeborg
(Regina)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: I need help with a cotehardie!--LONGISH
From: amethysta at eric.stonemarche.org (Amethysta of Kensingto)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 95 17:39:41 EST

Pasha writes:
> I respectfully have to disagree w/the lady who states you cannot find a
> good cotehardie pattern out of simplicity or butterick. I have seen many

Have to agree with you there. If anyone is interested, try Simplicity 
8603. It is a princess line-type dress, and all it need to make it into a 
cotehardie is a foot more material on the bottom, buttons on the sleeve 
and replace the zipper with lacings. I used this pattern for my bride's 
maid's dresses, so now instead of having a gaudy dress that they will 
never wear again, they all have purple linen cotehardies!

        Amethysta

From: "'Jherek' W. Swanger" <jswanger at u.washington.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Medieval Clothes Patterns?
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 17:40:51 -0800
Organization: University of Washington

On 11 Dec 1995, Paul Diaguila wrote:
> My lady and I are looking for a source of patterns for Medieval cloths.
> Any help will be rewarded with much gratitude...

The historical costuming FAQ has a list of catalogs which sell patterns.  
You can find it at: 
http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~rodmur/sca/arts-sciences/Costuming_Info.html

It's also archived at the FTP site: rtfm.mit.edu
    /pub/usenet/news.answers/crafts/historical-costuming

kirsti
(not jherek)

From: bbooth at televar.COM
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: medieval patterns
Date: 15 Dec 1995 19:47:33 -0500

>Start by calling or writing the SCA Marketplace PO Box 360789 Milpitas CA
95036-0789  (408)956-5444.  They have some good books and stuff to start
with.  Also, check at events or local fabric stores for Medieval
Miscellany patterns.<

I think a warning should be attached to all Medieval Miscellany patterns. The 
tunic pattern that I worked with _once_ was a massive mess of lines on paper. I 
have to admit though it was a one-of-a-kind tunic!

From: tristero.io.com!ches at uunet.uucp
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96
To: eden.com!ansteorra at uunet.uucp
Subject: RE: Newcomer 

On Sat, 13 Jan 1996 10:37:59 -0600  Nightbird wrote:
>Also, I'm looking for garb information.  I need a pattern for a skirt (I
>have a vest and shirt already).  Also looking for male garb for an ex-large
>friend.
>
>Thanks!
>Donna

You may try a commercial pattern for a two piece wedding dress, they are back 
in style again. If you want an A-line skirt then try Vogue #1239 it has two 
types one with a victorian waist cincher and another with a regular waistband. 
It is the only a-line skirt pattern I have found. Also try the h-costume 
mailing list and this webpage: http://home.aol.com/randwhit. It has a catalog 
of stuff.

Ciao    at }\
Ches  at }----`--,-- http://www.io.com/~ches/
        at }/

From: maj at serv.net (Marnie Fiamengo)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: garb patterns?
Date: 18 Jun 1996 15:31:16 GMT

>I'm in the process of putting together a Medieval wedding that will take
>place in some months.  I could swear that  I saw something somewhere that had
>ideas about various mostly 'mainstream' clothing patterns (you know, 
>Simplicity, etc.), but now that I'm looking for it, I can't find it.  Can
>anyone tell me of any such patterns for sale (or  patterns with a comparable
>price as those found in material stores) that I can pass on to my relatives
>who can't  buy garb outright but want to come to the wedding in period dress?

>rea
>seer at floodland.mv.com

A List of "Mainstream" Patterns to make Medieval / Renaissance Garb

(06/18/96)

I just spent a few hours skimming through the "mainstream" pattern books (Summer 
96)  at  my  local  fabric store and came up with the following list of patterns
that I feel could be used to make Med / Ren costumes...

About Fabrics to use:  NO LAMEE!!!  Please use fabrics that look and feel
period.  Don't really worry about colors in your first costume, go with what
looks good to you.  Please avoid prints...  Have fun with trim...

Get  hose/tights from dance supply stores (opaque, heavy duty, made specifically
for men!!)

Butterick: costume patterns 5673; 5749; and 6305

Simplicity: 
        9729/9736;
        8004/8010 Robin Hood & Maid Marion; 
        9175 A & D;
        9229/9236;
        9698 B & F;
        9718/9724 A, C, & H;    
        9089 A & B
        7046 (Juliet) floor length, sleeves A or D;
        8537 (Tudor) floor length, sleeves 1, neck 2;
        8888 bodice A or B, set in sleeves;
        9580 view D (wear as jerkin over a blouse with a full, floor length skirt);
        9582 D & E (blouse);
        7163 B (not lace);
        8009 full skirt (with or w/o train), long sleeves;

McCalls:
        6775 Medieval Magic B & C;
        6720 A & B;
        7280/7281 (Tudor-knee length tunic w lots of trim, over hose, belt it);
        7766;
        7563 skirt A, bodice B/D, fancy trim;
        6680 Robin Hood, Princess;
        6810 B, C, & D;
        7123 view B ("western" shirt as blouse for men or women);
        8157 A (over a blouse);
        8100 (Juliet) floor length, gathered sleeves;
        7957 E floor length;
        7197 (over blouse);
        8016 C floor length;
        8043 floor length skirt, bodice B, D, & E, sleeves A;
        8052 B with sleeves (A) from 8043;
        7990 full skirt, bodice (over a blouse);
        6774 cloaks

Hope this helps!

Morna Judithsdottir
Marnie Fiamengo

From: eherring at mindspring.com (Evan L. Herring)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cotehardies & sideless surcoats - ?s
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:34:23 -0400

>In article <4v7une$nda at dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> brettwi at ix.netcom.com(Brett 
Williams) writes:

>>It's [McCall's] 5743, copyright 1992, so it might be out of print.

Indeed, as you suspected, I couldn't find it anywhere.  I did, however, find 
another (albeit Simplicity) pattern that might work.  I would be interested in 
hearing opinions on #8345; it is described as a "fit and flared dress with 
princess seams; cap sleeves and back zipper."  The front seams do go all the 
way to the shoulder, and the sleeve appears to be easily alterable to a long 
one.  The mid-calf length dress shows a dress width of 129 1/2".

>>With that caveat in mind, there's Simplicity 9417, a tunic and (!!!)
>>sideless surcote that's designed to tie on over the dress. With a minor
>>amount of fiddling with the surcote (I'd widen the skirts out by
>>slashing the pattern and spreading), there's a good guideline for a
>>surcote.

This one I found.  Now I need some advice, as I have never "slashed" a pattern 
before --- only shortened or lengthened.  

How many length-wise slashes should I make? 

Where should they begin --- at the approx. waistline?  

Is there any limit to how far I can "spread" the pattern before it gets 
distorted and will not give me a true floor-length hem?

I apologize for all the questions, but I'm a relatively new *alterer* of 
patterns, and I can't afford to experiment much.

In advance, I thank you!  :-)
Magdalen of Cheshire

From: theducks at greenduck.com (Steve Urbach)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: chemise pattern--??
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 03:16:44 GMT
Organization: Green Duck Designs

HPGV80D at prodigy.COM (MISS PATRICIA M HEFNER) wrote:
>Does anybody know how I might get a pattern for a chemise? If so, please
>let me know. ----Isabelle

Visit Green Duck Designs WEB site. 
http://www.greenduck.com/
Look under patterns 
pattern is from Smoke & Fire.

Derek dragonsclaw

From: Kim Pollard <kim at inna.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Costuming question
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:20:38 -0500
Organization: WebSpan Inc., New Jersey

On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Jessica Megan Harwell wrote:
> I am looking for patterns (McCalls, Simplicity, etc) from which to make my
> garb out of.  If any of you have found a commercial pattern that you have
> used, I would be very grateful if you would send me the name of the
> company and the number.  I have not chosen my time period for my persona,
> so all contributions are welcome.  Thanks in advance.
> Jourdain
_____

I found a couple of patterns for halloween that may be useful for
starters.  They look good, but I doubt they're any more "period" than
plastic... ;>

Butterick #5749
        This is a kind of "Robin Hood" outfit.  Pretty easy to make.

McCall's Costumes #8449
        This is the women's & girl's renaissance outfit.

McCall's Costumes #8450
        This is men's & boy's renaissance outfit.

Anyone know how accurate the last two are?  They look nice on the cover,
but I've never researched them, so I have no idea how accurate they might
be. 

Kimberly

From: Heather McGlaughlin <hmcglaug at olemiss.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Costuming question
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:55:49 -0600
Organization: Univeristy of Mississippi Choral Music

Jessica Megan Harwell wrote: 
> I am looking for patterns (McCalls, Simplicity, etc) from which to make my
> garb out of.  If any of you have found a commercial pattern that you have
> used, I would be very grateful if you would send me the name of the
> company and the number.  I have not chosen my time period for my persona,
> so all contributions are welcome.  Thanks in advance.
> Jourdain
> 
>         *                Jessica Megan Harwell                     *
>         *                jess at jove.acs.unt.edu                     *

        I was just browsing and stopped at this- I found a pattern by 
"Style" the other night that is perfect for an Italian renaissance 
dress.  It has a wide scoop/sqaured neckline high-waisted bodice, and a 
skirt that is pleated on in the period style.  The skirt is short (above 
the knee) but you could lengthen it easily.  I don't have the number 
here at work with me, but if you'll email me privately, I could give you 
the number and some other patterns that have worked for me.

                                        fiona

Fiona MacLachlan                        Heather McGlaughlin
Chatelaine                              Department of Music
Shire of Hammerhold                     University of Mississippi
Oxford, MS                              University, MS  38677
                        <hmcglaug at olemiss.edu>

Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:57:28 -0600 (CST)
From: "Matthew R. Popalisky" <mpopali at comp.uark.edu>
To: ansteorra at eden.com
Cc: bryn-gwlad at eden.com
Subject: Re: Costuming question

On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Jessica Megan Harwell wrote:
> I am looking for patterns (McCalls, Simplicity, etc) from which to make my
> garb out of.  If any of you have found a commercial pattern that you have
> used, I would be very grateful if you would send me the name of the
> company and the number.  I have not chosen my time period for my persona,
> so all contributions are welcome.  Thanks in advance.
> Jourdain

(assuming you've done research to see what lines you are looking for)

From our good friend, the Knowne World Handbook (get one):

Bridal Elegance 1174   bodices
Bridal Elegance 1833   sleeves (no shirring)
Bridal Elegence 1837   more sleeves (no huge leg-o-mutton)

My advice here would be to look at the patterns in the book and find the
same thing in Simplicity or whatever.

Folkwear 102 French Cheesemaker's smock - field costuming
Folkwear 103 Roumanian blouse - shirt/chemise *this is a good one*
Folkwear 119 Sarouelles - three different ethnic pants.  Can be shortened
                          for slops, etc.  Very simple.
Folkwear 126 Vests from Greece and Poland - field clothes, doublet
Folkwear 204 Missouri River Boatman's shirt - chemise, reduce neckband to
                                              1 in (currently blackworking
                                               mine)
Folkwear 226 Princess Slip - look at it, find a cheaper pattern.  Good to
                             adapt for 15th cent

Folkwear also carries patterns for Hapi, Haouri, kimono, choli, and the
two piece thing the Indian women wear (haven't researched that yet, but
soon).

				*** warning ***

Folkwear patterns are a might tricky, and are not a good idea for the
inexperienced seamstress.  It has been my experience that the instructions
leave something to be desired.

Definately check out the Rialto Archives.  I also have charming T-tunic
instructions, email if you want it.

Kateryn
Grimfells

From: Brett and Karen Williams <brettwi at ix.netcom.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Desperately seeking cotehardie pattern
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 21:09:37 -0800

Kellen Harkins wrote:
> Yes try and track down a princess line type pattern, but the key
> difference is that you ( and I know there is one out there) would be
> more period to find a pattern where the side front seams go up into
> the shoulders rather than the arm holes.  I don't remember the
> pattern number but I believe it is still available... To get a more
> period stayle flare in the skirt, you can add gores in between the
> panels on the bottom.  These are basically a triangle type shape.
> Someone who has more experience or references could probably help more
> but this should give you a start...  If I'm not mistaken the male style
> has fairly straight lines, with a similar gore style on the skirt...
> 
> Ah, but the best part of cotehardies is sewing ten zillion button holes!
> --
> Kelley / Lady Kellen Oddsdottir/A woman with many faces....
> 
> Kellen Harkins
> a013957t at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us

McCalls has one in print right now-- saw it in the book less than a week 
ago. I'd note the pattern number, however I have a drawer full of 
various versions of (cough) eighteen years of 'the perfect cotehardie' 
pattern and restrained myself. ;)  I would add that in order to fit the 
shoulders correctly, one must omit the shoulderpads and the *allowance* in 
fabric to go over those offending shoulderpads.  This is easily done by 
carefully taking in the garment along the control seam from the bust point up 
and over the top of the shoulder and down to the corresponding point on the 
back of the shoulder.

Sewing cognoscenti should recognise right off the bat that I'm talking about 
altering a princess dress with control seams that go to the top of the 
shoulder rather than into the armsceye. Mundanely speaking, I'd never buy a 
princess dress pattern that *did* have the control seams going over the bust 
into the armscye-- if it's the least bit off in fit (which is determined in 
the cutting phase) it's next to nigh impossible to fix. The shoulder control 
seams are much more forgiving. The usual caveat of My Humble Opinion gets 
inserted here. :)

And to add a last tantalizing bit, Simplicity 9417 is a basic t-tunic dress 
that has an apron thingie designed to be worn over it-- which can be altered 
by spreading to a nice, basic sideless surcote. I don't know if it's still in 
print; it's c. 1995. The dress could be lengthened to a decent level, too.

ciorstan

From: Moira Ramsay <moira at iscweb.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Desperately seeking cotehardie pattern
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 11:42:12 -0800

For Modern Patterms with Princess Lines that go into the Shoulder rather
that the military cut here are three that as far as I know are still
available.

New Look 6327

Butterick 3240

and McCalls 6951

The New Look and McCalls patterns are wonderfully simple dresses and do
not take to much fabric. I have managed to only use 6 - 7 yds with out a
nap. Great for tourney wear. The McCalls is a 12 panel wedding gown. It
is beautiful and easily adapted for our use. However it does take a fair
amount of fabric for this gown.

Lady Moira Ramsay
West Kingdom
Principality of the Mists
Intermediate (self taught) Sewer and working on it! :-)

Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 16:52:11 EST
From: Lisa A. Tyson <CS23001 at MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Found mundane pattern to adapt for Elizabethan Chemise

Just got back from my 'place of worship'- Jo Ann Fabrics- and thought
I'd share the pattern I found which I will adapt for an Elizabethan
chemise.  The pattern is by New Look No. 6163 and was on sale for $3.00
(normally $3.49 ).  It is actually a nightgown pattern which has
several variations and is also a multi-sized pattern.

Now, I know some of you experienced in costuming for Elizabethan garments
will go "ehhhh".  I'm still learning  how to sew and to calculate
and adapt patterns for myself.  I'm sure I'll find this pattern pretty
useful  an an aid to my costuming endeavors.Perhaps I'll even graduate
from inexpensive cotton to nice linen for undergarments!!!
I will be using this pattern in conjunction with the Elizabethan

Hope the suggestion helps  those searching for costuming ideas.

-- Lady Bryn
   Kingdom of the East

Subject: Thank you for the courtesy of your message
From: CS23001 at MAINE.maine.edu (Lisa A. Tyson)
To: MARKH at risc.sps.mot.com
Date:    Fri, 10 Jan 97 15:40:13 EST

Gentle Stefan li Rous

Regarding : Found mundane pattern to adapt for Elizabethan Chemise

> Thanks for this input. I'll be adding it to my patterns-msg file
> in the CLOTHING section of my SCA Rialto Files.

Thank you for letting me know my opinion will be posted in a publicly
accessible forum.  Hope the pattern will help others who are new to
sewing and willing to use that pattern as a base for adaptations later.

There are some small changes I will make to the pattern:  Probably make
a fuller sleeve (width) and shorten the length of the ruff type cuff.
The pin tucks (vertical fold lines) on the chest area will likely be
omitted.  I think the pattern can easily make a nice shirt (partlet)
rather than making a full length chemise each time.  I will likely add
either a small edging of lace or some type of ruff (perhaps fake it with
box pleats) to the cuffs and neckline.  I am hoping this pattern will
give me more practice with a standing collar as that seems to be the
one piece of costuming I have the hardest time with.

The diagrams seem to have the chemise flair out to the sides from the
waist/hipline downwards.  I suspect someone interested in post 1600
falling collars (like for cavalier clothing) might find the alternate
collar of interest.

My primary reason for buying this pattern was that it appears to closely
resemble the sketches for a middle class/noble woman's chemise in the
popular _Elizabethan Costuming_ book.

You may include any of the additional information you wish.

You also had a question about this paragraph, which unfortunately was
truncated on my text editor before I submitted my article:

> Now, I know some of you experienced in costuming for Elizabethan garments
> will go "ehhhh".  I'm still learning  how to sew and to calculate
> and adapt patterns for myself.  I'm sure I'll find this pattern pretty
> useful  an an aid to my costuming endeavors.Perhaps I'll even graduate
> from inexpensive cotton to nice linen for undergarments!!!
> I will be using this pattern in conjunction with the Elizabethan
>

--> Huh?? Elizabethan what?

Elizabethan Costuming book (by Savoy and Winter ?? ).  I don't have it
handy at the moment.

Thank you for your note.  This email address will likely go dormant
in the near future as it is/was a university student account.  I'll be
certain to check out your pattern files so I can share the information
with others in my area.

-- In Service,

   Lady Bryn MacLachlan
   Kingdom of the East

Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 22:23:04 -0600
To: markh at risc.sps.mot.com (Mark S. Harris)
From: Heather McGlaughlin <hmcglaug at olemiss.edu>
Subject: Re: Costuming question

At 12:06 AM 11/20/96 -0600, you wrote:
>Yes, please. I would love to have some more patterns to add to my
>file patterns-msg in the CLOTHING section of my SCA Rialto Files.
>
>Thanks.
>  Stefan li Rous

        I am truly sorry it has taken me a while to reply.  I had to bring
my patterns to school to compile the list.  Here it is as I posted to a
costume question on the Meridian list.

Good Gentles, 
	I posted this list to the Meridian mailing list in response to an inquiry,
and thought it might be of help to many of those who like to have an actual
mundane pattern to work from when creating garb. Hope this is of use!

  These are patterns that I have PERSONALLY used in the last few
months (or am working on now)to make Italian Ren. and other period garb.
The only major modifications needed are to remove the bustline darts   (see
the section ongarb in the Known World Handbook for how to do this!) and to
adjust the skirt length to suit.  If you plan to dance in them, it's best to
hem them a bit shorter.

List follows.

STYLE #2085  

Perfect for basic Italian Ren.  Remove bustline darts. Lace it up the back,
and instead of facing the neck, simply line the bodice with something stiff
(trigger or horsehair canvas work well).  Add length to the hem at the
bottom.  Be sure to use View 1 for the skirt.
Add pieced sleeves for a nice effect.

You may also effectively turn the bodice around (using the back as the
front, and make a front lacing gown with open front to wear over a chemise
or suitable underdress for something cooler.  For a period effect (Venetian
style) close the top few inches of the skirt with two or three buttons.

See and Sew (by Butterick) #4479

Again, remove the darts, line the bodice instead of using the neck facing,
and lace it up the back.  You may gather the skirt on as shown, or box pleat
it (as in Style # 2085).  Be sure to add enough length to the skirt. 

The sleeves will work well with a few modifications (make them a bit
tighter, adjust the top line of the sleeve to a period cut, and cut in
half, adding holes for other puffs, etc.)  Lace or button them on, and be
sure to have nice full chemise (camiccia) sleeves to puff out underneath.

The rest are not Italian Ren, but for other period styles.

McCalls #7957
(modified for cotehardie)
Make View A, extending to floor length, (or less if you dance).  Scoop out
the neckline a little to make it a bateau neck (see any early period
painting or illumination).  You may also modify the princess seams in
frontso that the curve goes to the neckline (straight up ) instead of
curving out to the armscye.
Add extra gores to the skirt if you want more fullness, but it works fine as
is.  Lace up the back, and add trim!!

Style # 2805
(modified for cotehardie)
View A or B

This gown has a LOVELY silhouette.  Again, modify the neckline just a bit
(The V-neck just WON'T do!!) to a scoop or bateau neckline.  Adjust the
princess seam in the same manner as above.  The neck drape isn't period, but
a nicely rounded scoop neck and tippets will look much the same.  I would
recommend not adding the full length of the train unless you are say, a
bride or the QUEEN, and have people to hold it up for you!  Just round out
the back hem for a full floor length gown.  Lace up the back instead of the
zipper and buttons, or seam up the back and split down the front and button
it from the waist up.

(I'm using this one for my Graduate Voice Recital gown... I think it's trés
elegante!!)

Style #2678

Views B and C  (Peasant bodice and full long skirt)

Make the skirt as directed, to length desired.  Use a hook and eye or
button rather than the zipper.  Make bodice B, lacing the front instead of
using the buttons (bone the straight edge of seams for support for your
grommets).  Leave out the loops and lacing in back, adjusting along seam
lines for fit.

Easy Peasant!!  

Hope you all have fun making these.  Let me know if you have any questions.

BTW, I'll be teaching a class at Gulf Wars on constructing basic Italian
Renaissance gowns. The patterns above have worked well for me.  For a good
research source, try The Book of Costume by Milla Davenport.  Lots of great
photos.

                                        Fiona
Heather McGlaughlin			Fiona MacLachlan
Graduate Assistant 			Chatelaine
Department of Music/Choral Activities	Shire of Hammerhold
University of Mississippi		Oxford, MS

From: Greg & Robin Kornides <kornides at nb.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: period patterns info
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 14:04:00 -0800

Bocachika wrote:
> im interested in finding people who have tried the Houpplaude and
> cotehardie patterns from Period Patterns.  i have heard they were
> confusing.  Specifically, were you pleased/satisfied with the results? 

I've used both the men's and women's cotehardie patterns as well as the 
houppelande pattern (incl. both men's & women's) and have had no problems 
with either of them.  

One caveat though, the houppelande armhole & sleeve cap for the women's 
sizes is rather high and tight, so if you are making one for a lady with 
ample arms, use the men's armhole/sleeve and adjust sleeve length as 
necessary.

miriel verdy

From: "Perkins" <lwperkins at snip.net>
Subject: Re: period patterns info
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: 24 Mar 97 15:29:09 GMT

> Bocachika wrote:
> > im interested in finding people who have tried the Houpplaude and
> > cotehardie patterns from Period Patterns.  i have heard they were
> > confusing.  Specifically, were you pleased/satisfied with the results? 

I've used the men's cotehardie pattern and found that trying to trace the
correct size lines was like trying to navigate roads in Boston--too many
overlaps and not enough signage. I find patterns that have more than four
sizes printed on top of each other annoying to use, but if you are patient
(I'm not) and spend time with a colored pencil before you cut, the Period
Patterns go together well.  The woman's Tudor gown pattern is sized for the
shape of someone wearing a period corset underneath, so watch out for that
if you're going to wear mundane undergarments.

--Ester 

Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 08:30:27 -0700
From: Kathi <britearrow at geocities.com>
To: markh at risc.sps.mot.com
Subject: rialto-re:patterns

I've found a great bodice pattern, McCalls#8223.  It is designed to zip
up the back, but I just sewed it shut.  It does need boning if you're
going to use the lacings for closure instead of a zipper, or it gaps. 
Also, it tends to run a little large, so you need to check the fit
before you sew it together, or you'll be taking it in afterwards like I
did.  I got many compliments from ladies working ren-faires, and the
local SCA Clothing Guild Mistress loved the pattern.

Caitlinn Ingen Brigt(Kat)
britearrow at geocities.com

Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:09:48 -0700
From: "C.A.Renfro" <christy at lightspeed.net>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Duct tape Dummy

Rakhel asks:
>I have instructions on making a duct tape dummy and am eager to enlist the
>assistance of my friend to create one.

>As one who has great problems staying still, how long will I have to stand?
>Will my friend still talk to me afterwards?

Take a look at this site, it does a good job of explaining the process.

http://pw2.netcom.com/~leahna/DuctTapeDouble.html

Christy

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:25:18 -0500
From: Kapaj <kapaj at webspan.net>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Question about possible garb pattern

Liz Herman/cozit wrote:
> McCalls has put out a new pattern (ok, so they put it out in September,
> but it's almost new).  They call it a Renaissance Maiden Costume..I'm
> pretty certain that the number is 7756.
>
> Does anyone know if this is actually period (at least looking)...and if
> so, what time and place (generally speaking).  I'm wondering because
> I've seen people at events who have been wearing gowns that are *very*
> similar to the picture on the pattern.  After talking to one person at
> 12th Night, I know that at least a few of these were put together (no
> pattern) by those wearing.
>
> -Elisabeth (cozit at apexgrp.com)

I think I have seen the pattern that you are referring to.  It does have
the "look" of an early tudor dress.  A friend of mine made it as
field/kitchen garb.  If you are new to sewing and/or new to the SCA and
want get started this will be a start.  Keep in mind though that the
pattern does have some drawbacks - - first and formost it has darts (not
period) It skimps on material in the skirt (as least from a period
perspective.  And the way the shoulder seams are connected leaves
something to be desired.  I would make the following recommendations:
If you do not know how to alter a pattern, leave the darts alone cover
the seams of the darts with trim (look at lots of pictures of tudor
dresses to get the right "Look" for trim placement) When you make the
bodice part of the dress try it on and make sure it will fit snug enough
(read this as very tight!) If you are not too big busted you can get
away without boning the bodice if you use a couple of layers of a firm
fabric as interlining such as canvas or a heavy twill.  If you are
larger busted you will have to "bone" the bodice or wear a corset
underneath.  If you need instructions on how to make a corset or bone a
bodice e-mail me your address and I'll send you some written
instructions.

If you have the option, I would strongly encourage you to join and
attend your local garb workshops, Usually at any given garb workshop
there may be someone who can help you make the adjustments to this
pattern to make it more period.

Lady Jacqueline Helene Loisel

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:37:50 +0000
From: Karen at agent.infodata.com (Harris, Karen)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Question about possible garb pattern

Elisabeth wrote about a McCall's "Renaissance Maiden" costume ...
while McCall's does have a Renaissance women's costume, it's pretty
nasty-looking ... but I think this isn't what Elisabeth saw.

Simplicity carries a pair of relatively decent Renaissance patterns
-- 7756 for women (http://www.simplicity.com/Images/7756.jpg), and
7761 for men (http://www.simplicity.com/Images/7761.jpg).  If this is
indeed the pattern Elisabeth was looking at, then I would strongly
suggest she follow the advise of Lady Jacqueline Helene Loisel.  I
haven't played around with this pattern yet but it looks like it
could make up a right decent Irish dress.  An e-mail pen pal of mine
will be bringing over a dress she made based off of this pattern to
our Needlework Night on Tuesday and I am looking forward to seeing it
made up.

McCall's does however carry a reasonable 15th century set -- men's
simple houppelande with a hat and pouch as accessories, and a women's
square-necked kirtle.  (I don't like how they do the women's surcoat
though; I understand that it's supposed to look more like the German
surcoats but it just turns out nasty-lookin', IMHO.)  I can vouch for
the women's dress as being period-looking and comfy -- I made it
without any fastenings on the sides (it calls for zippers, but those
openings can easily be converted for lacing) and wear them to
warm-weather events.  :)

Karen Larsdatter

From: Brett and Karen Williams <brettwi at ix.netcom.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Re Q. about possible garb pattern....Ooops!

Liz Herman/cozit wrote:
> Apparently my head was out to lunch somewhat when I sent out my
> question.  The pattern I am wondering is indeed Simplicity's new pattern
> (7756)...not McCalls.  I forgot which side of the pattern cabinet I was
> looking at.
>
> I appreciate the responses I've received, but could those who know the
> pattern, please let me know about the periodness and where the
> Simplicity pattern would fit in?
>
> -Elisabeth

I don't have a copy of the pattern myself-- so I can't comment on the
way the pieces themselves make up. I will trot out my usual complaint
about Simplicity, though-- as a whole Simplicity is notorious for pieces
not fitting together and their skirt illustrations usually show much
more skirt drape than the pieces actually make up.

However, I went to the web site and examined the picture Lady Karen so
kindly provided and will express my opinion thereon. I haven't seen the
back view, so I can't comment thereon. The picture is:

http://www.simplicity.com/Images/7756.jpg

I'll call the striped gown on the left as view A, the more elaborate
gown on the right view B. I see a number of small problems that add up
to a mildly dissatisfying whole. The pattern is all right for a
'costume'-- but the details are off. View A is a very late period "Irish
dress", View B is something of a mish-mash of details that makes the
dress hard to place temporally other than somewhere around 1530s to
1540's.

View A has an obvious dart from the bust point to the waist for
shaping.  I would eliminate the dart by drafting it out (any good sewing
text will explain this technique in clear detail). If there's a dart in
the back bodice, same thing. The chemise/shift is too short in the arms
(no decent woman would display her arms above her wrists!) and it lacks
a cuff and an oversleeve. The lack of an oversleeve is fine, if one is
after an Irish dress. English lower middle class and downwards-- unless
it was a very hot day and you were up to your elbows in muck, you were
undressed without your oversleeves. The padded roll hat is all right for
Irish (but wrong trim placement and IIRC, the veil is wrong), but Right
Out for English. Ah, yes-- and lose the apron. The skirts are not quite
full enough, either.

Cross reference this photograph against the illustration with respect to
women's clothes at:

http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~wew/celt-clothing/

It takes a while to load. ;) I am kind of wondering at the commentary
next to the picture on the web site-- because the evidence in McClintock
and Dunleavy tends to contradict what the web page author has to say
about women's dress.

Anyway, apply some critical thought by comparing the illustration, drawn
by a Dutchman who saw Tudor period Irish women first hand, against the
photograph at Simplicity's site. Mairead Dunleavy's "Dress in Ireland",
which is rumoured to have just come back into print again, has a fairly
clear photograph of an Irish dress of this period found in a bog. It is
cut nothing like what the Simplicity pattern offers-- nor the Alter
Years Irish dress, though it's a better approximation than Simplicity.
There is also a color plate of more of this Dutchman's watercolor travel
log illustration in McClintock, which has a type of padded roll turban
headdress, IIRC. I don't believe it has a veil, though-- but it's been a
while since I had McClintock in hand. Dunleavy's Irish dress is
remarkably complex; and the front of the bodice does not cover the
bosom!

And rather than use the gathered neck and short sleeved chemise the
pattern supplies, there is an excellent leine method/pattern located at:

http://trojan.neta.com/~caradoc/leine.html

View B:

Again, there's problems with details. The headdress looks to be a copy
of the Medieval Miscellanea French hood, which is merely not to my
taste-- the veil is nice, but Italian in look as the English would have
used a shorter 'veil' of black velvet. Proportionally speaking, I think
the hood's crescent stands up too high on the head. That's fairly minor,
though.  The dress, however, is a combination of period and place that
makes a 'creative' anachronism, no bad joke intended. The upper portion
of the oversleeve is an Italian design inappropriate for 1530s-1540s
upper class English Tudor, while the lower area itself suggests the
shape of the bell sleeve used in this period and place, but it lacks the
elaborate undersleeve and (most often furred) turnback accompanying that
specific 'look'. The center front bodice closure is inappropriate
combined with the oversleeve design, and inappropriate for high nobility
(side would be better, or center front under a smooth attached
plastron). I can't tell if there's a dart in the front of the bodice.
The chemise sleeves again are too short and lack a cuff-- and if this is
intended for English 1530's Tudor, the chemise sleeves are wrong, though
the neckline is all right (though it should be worn hardly showing
around the decolette neckline). I also can't tell where the skirt
gathering method starts (should be lined up with the point of the pelvic
girdle/bone of the individual wearing the gown), nor can I tell if
there's a center front point on the bodice waistline-- which would
identify the time period more firmly. The skirt length is a hair too
short for my taste; it should be fuller and cartridge pleated to either
the lower bodice or, ideally, to a separate waistband with the fullness
towards the back.

All in all, the Simplicity pattern presents two decent costumes, but not
clothes. ;) Please keep in mind that these are my opinions-- and
opinions are, after all, subjective and prone to change when the phase
of the moon shifts. Eliminate the dart in View A, widen the skirts for
more yardage and make it out of a nice worsted wool and it would be a
nice Irish dress once the proper leine was added underneath. B-- I would
not use.

Do y'all want me to comment on McCalls 8826? ;) I *do* have that one in
front of me, though.

ciorstan

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:04:03 -0700
From: "Rebecca Mikkelsen" <RMikkelsen at mail.lhs.logan.k12.ut.us>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Re Q. about possible garb pattern....Ooops!

> << Do y'all want me to comment on McCalls 8826? ;) I *do* have that one in
>  front of me, though.
>
>  ciorstan
>
> ciorstan, I think that this was quite a worthy rant, and answered the lady's
> questions quite appropriately (she says as she prints the post to put in her
> Minister of Arts & Sciences' files for new sewers!!!)  I, personally, would
> like another post because many people DO take these as fairly authentic 
> (shudder).
>
> Lady Eirinn O'Riordain
> MoAS- Shire of Gryphon's Lair, Kindgom of Artemesia

I guess I should say a word or two about these patterns because I
used them this fall to make costumes for a high school production of
"Kiss Me Kate".  The other high school in our area used them for
"Once Upon  Mattress".

If you are looking for an authentic mundane pattern, stay away from
these patterns.

If you are doing high school musicals, these are GREAT (they saved my
life).  They give the audience a good feel for the time period (but
how many of them know the difference between a houppeland and an
Elizabethan gown anyway <g>).

BUT, if you are a newbie who knows how to sew with mundane patterns
and you are making your first garb and are feeling a little
overwhelmed and wondering where to start, use these patterns.  Don't
you all remember your first garb?  Mine was a V-necked gown made from
a wedding dress pattern.  It had a zipper and was made of a blue
shiny brocade.  When I look back, I realize it wasn't that period,
BUT, it looked great, helped create the ambiance at an event, and
made me feel like I fit in.  And that, I think, is more important to
a newbie than whether or not they are wearing something completely
period.  Eventually, that first garb will be discarded for something
more period as their skills grow (I wonder what happened to my dress?
<g>).

A few comments on the patterns themselves:

There are five patterns I am talking about here.  They are found in
the costume section of the McCall's and Simplicity books.  There are
2  men's patterns:  One with a minstrel and "Robin Hood" on the
front; the other with a man and two boys, the man in a slashed
doublet and the boys wearing tabards.  3 women's patterns:  One with
2 women in renaissance garb (one looks like "royalty" the other more
of a serving girl); one with a women and two girls wearing
difficult-to-determine-the-time-period dresses; one with 2(?) women
wearing a sort of sideless surcoat.

The men's patterns have a good, basic, starter "floofy" renaissance
shirt and the women's patterns have a basic, raglan-sleeved,
all-purpose chemise.  But if that is all you buy the patterns for,
don't.  Ask around for a more period way to make the shirt and
chemise.

I wasn't impressed with how the costumes fit.  Of course, most people
make them just as costumes.  When you are making something as
*clothing* you want the fit to be better.

Rebecca (who is now working on costumes for a high school production
of "Midsummer Night's Dream" and wondering how she got involved in
this?)

From: Brett and Karen Williams <brettwi at ix.netcom.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Larger size clothing patterns for women
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 18:20:07 -0800

Womyn2me wrote:
> >Costume Connection's patternsgo up to XXL (24-26) and one can enlarge
> >from that. They have medieval, houplleades (sp?), and Reaniassance
> >common womans costume.
> 
> Folks, how about a bit more detail for us newbies, like who is Costume
> Connections and do they have a website???  Others put in some names as well,
> with no idea how to reach them

Constume Connection is a small business in Virginia that puts out
historically inspired patterns. There are in actuality about four
pattern outfits (grin) who make patterns for re-creation/recreation
folk.

There's Folkwear, which has just been sold to Lark Books as of about
three weeks ago. Lark Books has a website with an explanatory page--
however they're not in production quite yet since the staff at Lark is
reviewing the inventory received from Taunton Press presumably to start
up print runs. And yes, they intend to market the entire line of, erm,
IIRC, about 150 patterns.

Costume Connection presently has about, erm, ten patterns in its line.
To my jaded eye they seem to be largely based on Katherine Holkeboer's
book, a flawed book that in turn relies on the flawed Evolution of
Fashion written by Hill & Bucknell. (Don't get me started on houpeland
sleeve cutting...)

Medieval Miscellanea puts out a line of patterns called "Period
Patterns". They are badly trued and use a sloper (at least, for women)
that has a very small, high armscye. I do not recommend them for
anything other than providing a very basic idea of how a particular
garment *might* have been constructed-- I'd use my own drafting instead. 

AlterYears has a small line of in-house patterns for the late
period/Renaissance folk, plus an Irish dress, leine and an approximation
of the (temporarily) out of print Kinsale Cloak pattern that met a
demise when Taunton Press stopped production/support of Folkwear about
three years ago. I have worked on one of these particular patterns and
am a satisfied customer so far. But then, I know the proprietor and one
of the staff on a 'hi, howya doin'!' basis, so I could be construed as a
somewhat prejudiced source. I don't appear at the store unless I'm
prepared to perform a cashectomy on my wallet.

There are a couple of other small 'press' lines of period/oid patterns
out there, like MoiRandall, and a couple of others who aren't coming to
mind as I hastily beat the moths out of my brain.

As for sources:  The firms themselves are primarily wholesalers. You
will need to go to retail in order to obtain an actual pattern. The two
best known are:

Amazon Drygoods, in Davenport Iowa 

and 

AlterYears, in Pasadena, California. 

With a little diligence you can get telephone numbers from Information;
neither of the two have anything more than a simple single web page up,
which can be obtained from any decent search engine.

Both companies require a small chunk of change for their catalog(s).
Both catalogs are fascinating and inspirational reading. ;) I'm not
connected with either one, other than as a satisfied customer.

ciorstan

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 06:33:44 -0800
From: Jacki <edenwild at alaska.net>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: German Ren costume patterns??

I used Medieval Misc, German Ren Pattern a couple of years ago.  It has lots of
good documentation and the like. It can get confusing for beginners but can be
helpful in leading you in the direction you want to go.  I mostly used it for a
base and went from there.

Elspeth Bouchananne

Phefner at aol.com wrote:
> Does anyone know where I might get a pattern for a German Ren dress?  I'm not
> much of a seamstress--as you probably know, I'm mainly interested in the
> textile arts, not costuming. But we have a baronial investiture coming up in
> December and I'm trying to figure out some really nice new garb for it that
> won't kill me to make!! :-) Thanks in advance.
>
> Isabelle

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:48:32 EDT
From: <Mazelle at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: German Ren costume patterns??

Period patterns has a German Renn pattern now. (Formally Medieval Misc.
Company). Be wary, it is not for the beginner seamstress. Make sure you do a
mock up out of cheap material first. You can order the pattern through either
Amazon Drygoods or Alteryears.

Alysia

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:11:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Giovanna <valkyr8 at yahoo.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: German Ren costume patterns??

I just made a German Ren dress for my Barony's spring
Schutzenfest.  I used the Medieval Miscellania
pattern.  It required me making a mock up of the
bodice and then having my friend fit it on me.  I made
the rather simple dress with the rounded neckline and
separate collar and attached sleeves. (For any of you
who have the Medieval Women calendar it's similar to
the dress Mary's wearing in May (?))

This was my first dabble in 16th century dress and I
thought it was pretty simple.

Giovanna
Barony of Nordskogen

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:23:11 EDT
From: <Phefner at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: German Ren patterns

I tried using Medieval Miscellaneous' Italian Ren patterns. The result was
three outfits I can't take out of the closet, and I even tried them all on
unbleached muslin first. I think I'd better try something else since I'm only
a so-so seamstress. Maybe I should knit something since I'm good at that! :-)

Isabelle

Subject: [TM] Fwd: computer generated smock and t-tunic paterns
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:34:35 MST
From: "Paul D. Schreuders" <ps129 at umail.umd.edu>
To: Kim_Schreuders at Fieldston.Com, Judy Gerjuoy <jaelle at Radix.Net>
     , "Mark.S Harris (rsve60)" <rsve60 at email.sps.mot.com>

>In a message dated 9/16/99 2:20:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, aleed at DNACO.NET writes:
>
><< Subj:          Online Smock/T-tunic pattern generator
>Date:  9/16/99 2:20:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>From:  aleed at DNACO.NET (aleed)
>Sender:    SCA-GARB at LIST.UVM.EDU (Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)-Garb)
>To:    SCA-GARB at LIST.UVM.EDU
>
>OK, it's finally finished:  I've created a web-based Elizabethan Smock
>pattern generator, and instructions on sewing it together.  You input your
>measurements, and it generates customized instructions and to-scale
>pictures of the pattern pieces. It also calculates how much fabric
>you'll need, and shows a diagram of the most economical way to lay the
>pieces out. It also works for T-Tunics. It's at:
>
>http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/smockpat/
>
>It works well for me, but I'm only one set of measurements :)   Please,
>try it out if you're interested--and let me know how it works for you.
>
>Drea

**********************************************************************
Paul D. Schreuders                    E-Mail: ps129 at umail.umd.edu
Biological Resources Engineering
University of Maryland                Phone: (301) 405-0145
College Park, MD  20742-5711          FAX:   (301) 314-9023
**********************************************************************

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:53:22 MST
From: Eric Abbott <eja_us at yahoo.com>
Subject: BG - Simplicity patterns
To: bryn-gwlad at Ansteorra.ORG

Greetings good gentles, 
As I offered below is the list of Simplicity patterns
available, sizes, style etc... 

#8725 Sideless surcote/kyrtle sizes 4-20
#8728 headresses and cape  one size
#8735 Italian Renn sizes 4-20
#8192 Italain Renn sizes 4-20
#8249 tudor sizes 18w-32w
#8715 tudor sizes 4-20
#7756 tudor sizes 4-20
#8587 peasant both genders sizes xs-xl
#7761 Robin Hood/ Renn Man sizes xs-xl
#8318 Childrens various. sizes 3-8
#8108 Passion Play (Biblical) xs-xl
#7905 Ecclesaistical One size
#8281 Native American xs-xl
#8282 Native American Childrens 3-8

Please be aware that each pattern usually only has a
couple of sizes in it. For example the sideless
pattern has sizes 4,6 and 8 in the same package. The
other sizes are probably split 10, 12,& 14. and then
16, 18 & 20. This is common in commercial patterns.  I
hope this helps. 

Salvador

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:38:38 EST
From: <SUSANARIEL at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Further info on the Simplicity Patterns

M'Ladies, thank you for your prompt responses!

There are actually two patterns:

Simplicity 8728, for Mantle, medallion closures, and headpieces...they 
actually have a short bit of historical explanation in the notes. The mantle 
may well not be period, it has two or three seams in the pattern.  Though how 
do you get fabric big enough to make a circle these days??? One that would be 
long enough??)

Simplicity #8725 for gown and sideless surcote (they actually use this word 
in the pattern, along with some historical notes of proper fabrics to use, as 
well as trim made by card weaving.)

Any notes you can give me greatly appreciated...these are more introductory 
for me, will try the SCA available patterns as well.

In service, and with thanks to you,

Muir 

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:43:30 -0800
From: "D.L. Cunningham" <dcdesign at shield.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Further info on the Simplicity Patterns

Actually, the patterns you are referring to are fairly period, and work
very well. They are a new set of patterns that have been produced within
the last year. We have several people in this kingdom who have made them
recently.

The only complaint that I have heard is that the gown or cotehardie uses
approximately 10 yards of fabric. It looks very elegant however.

As far as mantles being made from one piece of fabric. I have never run
into this in my research. Most fabric in history was made at a width of
36" or 45". So, unless you are 18" tall. You could not make a mantle of
a full circle without seams.

If you are interested in the time period of cotehardies and sideless
surcoats (generally 1300's), please let me know. I have a small list of
relevant books with some patterns and a lot of good information.

Gala Cunningham
mka. Donna Cunningham
Ansteorra

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:44:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Giovanna <valkyr8 at yahoo.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Question About Simplicity Medieval Pattern

--- Helen Schultz <meistern at netusa1.net> wrote:
> By the way, I tend to doubt
> these patterns  really are all that accurate (I'm
> not THAT informed about
> period patterns, however), but they DO look good --
> I just wouldn't count on
> them being overly accurate in their seams.  

You are correct in your doubts.  The mechanics that
most commercial patterns employ are modern ones.  An
example would be the use of darts or a "princess" seam
on the top of a garment to conform to the natural bust
line.  Most dresses in the Middle Ages and the
Renaissance were not concerned with the "natural" bust
line.  Your body was supposed to conform to the dress,
not the other way around.

The Simplicity patterns that have been released in the
past year have made great attempts to look correct/
proper.  However, you will still find these modern
fitting devices.  I believe the pattern the initial
poster is refering to is number 8725.  It can be found
at this url.
http://www.simplicitypatt.com/catsimp.html 

(Either that or it's the other Simplicity pattern that
has the woman wearing a coathardie and a cloak and
tubes on the side of her head which isn't shown on the
main Simplicity web page..)

It's not a bad coathardie pattern, and the surcoat
isn't bad either.  I generally refer newer people in
the SCA to these patterns for the following reasons:

With minor adjustments to the patterns and the use of
good material the clothing looks good/ correct.
Most people are accustomed to using this type of
pattern if they have sewn prior to joining the SCA.
Sucess with their first piece of garb will encourage
them to continue sewing and learn more about period
fabrics and construction techniques.

Best suggestion, take your Simplicity pattern to
someone who is a good costumer in your group and ask
her/ him for help.  They should be able to refer you
to some good stores for fabric, they might help you
fit the pattern and make suggestions for improving the
design.
This is best done in person than over the net.

Hope this helps.

G
=====
Signora Giovanna Theresa Battista di Firenze
Barony of Nordskogen
Principality of Northshield
Middle Kingdom

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:48:48 -0600
From: "Diane M. Mathews" <camelothorse at earthlink.net>
To: <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: Further info on the Simplicity Patterns

There was a lot of discussion about the Simplicity 8725 pattern a few months
ago on the list.  To my recollection, the complaint about accuracy was that
the gown actually needed more gores to be truely period and the neckline
should have been more square than round.  Someone on the list actually had
the information from the designer about what the original design was and how
Simplicity changed it.

  I have done this pattern and enjoy it very much.  I did make the change to
get rid of the zipper and put in grommets and back lacing instead.  Most of
my friends that have used this pattern HATED it.  They are full figure with
ample bust----- I usually wear a size 6 in clothes and do not have a lot of
bust.  The model in the picture is extremely flat and this pattern makes  "
NO " allowance in the bust area.  I have another friend that is very flat
 similar to me ) and borrows this gown from me because she looks great in it
and her boyfriend loves her in it.( it makes her look like she has curves )
He wants me to make her one just like mine !  I think I am going to give it
to her for her birthday.

    I have not done the Simplicity 8728 because I got interested in the
Tudor and Elizabethan periods and have been studying and working on gowns in
this time period now.

    Also---remember to measure yourself and the pattern for accuracy.
Simplicity allows a " LOT " of allowance and I have found that I generally
wear two sizes less than what the pattern states whether it is for mundane
clothes or their period costumes.

Diane

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:41:47 -0500
From: "Joseph M. Lovvorn" <jlovvorn at sprynet.com>
To: <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: Question About Simplicity Medieval Pattern

Simplicity has come out with some pretty good period-looking patterns which
look fine & will pass anything but the strictest inspection (like if you're
entering it into competition).  For authenticity, I'd make the following
general suggestions (this is not knowing which pattern you have, of course):

1.    If it fastens down the front (unless it is a bodice/vest type thing -
later period), move the fastening around to the back.

2.    If their pattern calls for a back zipper, add an extra layer of
interfacing (for strength) in back & make it back-laced.  It's pretty easy
to do this.  This works well for cotehardie-type or Italian Ren patterns.
BTW:  It's more "period" to hand-finish the buttonholes instead of using
metal grommets, but some people do that, too.

3.    Omit ANY darts the pattern requires.  Darts hadn't been invented in
period, though gussets (under arms, around the bust, etc. - for
Renaissance-period) were sometimes used.

4.    If it's long-sleeved & tight fitting, make the sleeves a little
longer, just long enough to go around your hand, then push them up (I add an
extra 4-6").

5.    Wear a chemise and/or multiple underskirts (depends on period &
style).  With cotehardies, you can usually get away with just a chemise -
make it exactly like the overdress pattern, but in white/off-white
cotton/muslin.

6.    Ignore anything they tell you is "period" headwear & just go for basic
veils or a cap (depending on period).  IMO, most of what they pass off as
period headwear looks ridiculous!

Ailionor

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 20:26:52 -0500
From: "Holly Grimmett" <hsulliva at tampabay.rr.com>
To: <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: RE: Further info on the Simplicity Patterns

>     Also---remember to measure yourself and the pattern for accuracy.
> Simplicity allows a " LOT " of allowance and I have found that I generally
> wear two sizes less than what the pattern states whether it is for mundane
> clothes or their period costumes.

Yep.  RTW sizes and pattern sizes are very different things.  RTW
manufacturers have been catering to women's vanity for years; over time, the
measurements for a size 12 (for example) have crept upwards, while the
number on the garment tag has stayed "12".  Always measure yourself and the
actual pattern pieces.. and remember to allow for some ease; the amount will
vary, depending on whether your item is close fitting or not.

:-)---Holly---<--<- at 

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 21:28:41 -0500
From: "MB" <eislinn at netzero.net>
To: <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: Further info on the Simplicity Patterns

    This is my first posting, and I have had very good luck with the
Simplicity patterns.  I am rather well endowed, but had no problem with any
of the patterns.  I took in where I needed to, added boning for lift and
shape and cut down the back and added grommets and lacing.  Everyone ( even
though I am tooting my own horn ) says it is wonderful..

Eislinn

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 20:54:22 -0600
From: "Diane M. Mathews" <camelothorse at earthlink.net>
To: <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: Further info on the Simplicity Patterns

McCall's P439 is a Tudor pattern that is not too bad.  I always end up
changing the patterns a little.  The square neck line needs to be widened a
little and I did not sew in the sleeves for myself but, made them separate
so they could be laced on and changed.  Again, I took out the zipper and
have a back laced bodice.  I made a light chemise to wear under it and I
lengthened the skirt in back to have a slight train.

Another patter from Simplicity that makes up well is # 7756.  This one I
made up pretty much " as is " (with the exception that I have the need to
totally line everything that I make) and had lots of compliments on it.  I
made the gown in black velvet and my underskirt was a lovely tapestry.

For a peasant outfit, the Simplicity # 8715 makes up fast and easy and it is
my husband's personal favorite on me.  I made view A.

I have the Simplicity 8881 Elizabethan gown but, have not had a chance to
make it yet.  Margo (on the list) has great comments on this pattern as to
what to change to make it really period.  I'm hoping to attack this project
soon and plan to use her suggestions.  This gown is actually out of your
time period.  My persona is more late Tudor and early Elizabethan.

I also took the Simplicity 8735 pattern (known as the Ever After dress) and
completely reworked it to make it correct. ie---back lacing,
underdress instead of the panel but, I think it is a lot of work to "redo"
the pattern when you can use Period Patterns no.41 for the Italian gowns
1470-1505

Period Patterns no. 51 is probably what you are looking for.  It has five
different versions of early Tudor gowns ( 1490-1535 )

Diane
----- Original Message -----
> "Diane M. Mathews" wrote:
> > I have not done the Simplicity 8728 because I got interested in the
> > Tudor and Elizabethan periods and have been studying and working on gowns in
> > this time period now.
>
> HEY!!  My persona is early Tudor but I cannot find any patterns that are from
> this period (1450-1500). Have you found any?
>
> Lady Cecily (sighing hopefully!)

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 23:15:06 -0500
From: Norma Winter <winterne at bellatlantic.net>
To: "'sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu'" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: RE: Further info on the Simplicity Patterns

I made a dress from Simplicity 8725 but I am only 5'3" so I cut off 13". 
The first time I wore it I came out of my tent first thing in the morning 
and by the time I had my coffee in hand, with the dew on the grass, I had 
4" of mud dragging on the back of my skirt. The next one I made barely 
touches the ground. It is comfortable and have changed a few things. I have 
an ample bust and had to add a few inches. The result of my adjustments is 
2 yds less of fabric on each piece.

Another good one is a mundane, Simplicity 8379. I just add an extra 5/6 
inches to it. It only has side seams in the overdress and instead of the 
zipper in the underdress I just sewed it up and slip it over my head.

Magdalena

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 23:08:55 -0600
From: "Diane M. Mathews" <camelothorse at earthlink.net>
To: <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: Further info on the Simplicity Patterns

> > Period Patterns no. 51 is probably what you are looking for.  It has five
> > different versions of early Tudor gowns ( 1490-1535 )
>
> What are "Period Patterns"? I have never heard of them.
>
> Lady Cecily

Period Patterns is a brand name like Simplicity but, they deal specifically
with your period clothing and are more likely to follow the body style of
the time period and give you a more correct look.  The instructions are
however, a little more difficult to follow than your companies like
Simplicity or McCall's.  Once you get use to sewing, I do not think you
would have a problem following the other pattern directions.

Diane  (Guinevere with the SCA)

Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 18:17:07 -0500
From: Carol Thomas <scbooks at neca.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: best patterns so far after lots of looking

 <A HREF="http://www.longago.com/medieval.html">Medieval</A>  

><< these are the best patterns I've found thus far >>
>
>The Medieval Miscellanea/Period Patterns selections are rather difficult to 
>use unless you are very experienced in costuming, IMO.
>
>Ras

That's very polite.  I'll be blunt.

I got the High Medieval Houpelandes pattern when I was fairly new.  It has
the same dresses as shown in The neckline, which was supposed to come in a
V to the top of the cleavage, came far below my breasts.  The cut of the
armholes was very uncomfortable, even as a modern garment.  In addition,
they had the seams in the modern, not period location, which made the whole
sleeve hang wrong, and this makes those big sleeves annoying to wear.
While I had made garments from patterns through the years, I was not
prepared to have to make my own pattern, correcting the mess that the
drafter made.  It was a very, very discouraging experience!

Now, that said - has anyone had any actual experience with how the Rocking
Horse Farm patterns are drafted?

My experience was with the Period Pattern (then titled Medieval
Miscellanea) specifically.

Carllein

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 07:02:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Giovanna <valkyr8 at yahoo.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: best patterns so far after lots of looking

> My experience was with the Period Pattern (then
> titled Medieval Miscellanea) specifically.

I believe they have gotten better since then. They are
not perfect (no pattern is) and I would NOT recommend
them to a beginner.

G
=====
Signora Giovanna Theresa Battista di Firenze
Barony of Nordskogen
Principality of Northshield
Middle Kingdom

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 06:19:50 -0900
From: Jacki <edenwild at alaska.net>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: best patterns so far after lots of looking

I use them as a starting point.  I too have found them to be unwieldy
and uncomfortable.  Her documentation is good and gives places to look.
Most of the patterns are in my file and I pull them out whenever that
type is needed and then do my own as has been mentioned before.  I have
had much better results with Rocking Horse and Wingeo especially for
larger size figures.

Elspeth Bouchannane

Giovanna wrote:
> > My experience was with the Period Pattern (then
> > titled Medieval Miscellanea) specifically.
>
> I believe they have gotten better since then. They are
> not perfect (no pattern is) and I would NOT recommend
> them to a beginner.

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 11:31:44 -0600
From: "Patricia Hefner" <patricia.hefner at worldnet.att.net>
To: <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: best patterns so far after lots of looking

> > My experience was with the Period Pattern (then
> > titled Medieval Miscellanea) specifically.
>
> I believe they have gotten better since then. They are
> not perfect (no pattern is) and I would NOT recommend
> them to a beginner.
>
> G

I tried one as an SCA newbie nine years ago. I was not a sewing novice, but
I was inexperienced with period patterns. I tried an Italian Ren, and it was
a disaster. The thing didn't fit, and I couldn't get it to no matter how
hard I tried. I've since gained weight and can't fit into it.  No, don't use
these things unless you really know how to sew! Costuming is not my forte,
so I still stay away from patterns that are super-difficult.

Isabelle de Foix
Barony of Iron Mountain
Kingdom of Meridies

From: Adrienne R. Ferrell [aferrell at texas.net]
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 12:15 AM
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Ansteorra] new butterick pattern

   Butterick has a new pattern #3552.
 Gown B is cut very much like the Fig 212 "Giottino, the Deposition.
Detail. First half of Fourteenth Century" on page 192 in the book "The
History of Costume" By Blanche Payne.  Replace the zipper with lacing.
Change the sleeve tight fitting with buttons up the side; you may be able
to modify the sleeve from gown A.  Gown B's sleeve is a very nice sleeve
for a 12th century gown or late 14th early 15th century; but the cut of
gown is very different during that time.

Gown A has lots of gores and would be appropriate for early/mid 14 century
with the above changes.
This gown could be also be modified to the Greenland dress.
Tape pieces 1 and 2 together and cutting them out (not on the fold) as one
piece. Then placing the gores that would have been between pieces 1 and 2
in the center where the fold of piece 2 would have been.  Make the same
modifications to the back pieces 4 and 5. Omit the zipper and add lacing.
The sleeve would have been closer fitting at the wrist. A photograph of the
Greenland dress and layout of this gown is also in "The History of Costume"
By Blanche Payne on page 193.

FYI Hancock Fabrics has McCalls and Butterwick patterns for $1.99 on
alternating weeks this month.

Check out Joann fabrics for 66% off linen and linen blends (sale started
yesterday) Simplicity patterns are on sale until July 13th for $1.99

Sincerely,
Seraphina

From: margo at margospatterns.com (Margo Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.fairs.renaissance,rec.org.sca
Subject: New Elizabethan Pattern!
Date: 28 Nov 2004 15:41:22 -0800
Organization: http://groups.google.com

Margo Anderson's Historic Costume Patterns is proud to announce the
release of yet another historically accurate, highly detailed
Elizabethan Pattern!

The Elizabethan Comfort pattern is a woman's kirtle (underdress) with
detachable sleeves, and a loose gown (also known as a Spanish Surcoat
or Ropa). It's suitable for lower middle class to nobility, and has
optional modifications for maternity and breastfeeding.  It comes in
sizes 2-28.

To see it and order, go to www.margospatterns.com

And keep watching for the announcement of our next pattern, The
Elizabethan Working Woman's Wardrobe, to be released soon!

From: Coblaith Mhuimhneach <Coblaith at sbcglobal.net>
Date: September 11, 2007 2:04:15 AM CDT
To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad <bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] Patterns

Heather wrote:
> . . .I'm doing some research right now. I found this:
>
> http://www.folkwear.com/
>
> but the historical info isn't listed on the site. Have you ever used
> any of these patterns?

Folkwear makes folk patterns; as far as I know, they don't offer or
claim to offer anything accurate to our period.

Reconstructing History
<http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/index.php?c=22&w=24&r=Y> offers
well-researched patterns from the 15th and 16th centuries.

Margo Anderson's Historic Costume Patterns
<http://www.margospatterns.com/> offers well-documented patterns for
Elizabethan upper class men and women and lower class women.

Burda <http://burdamode.com> has a reasonably accurate pattern for a
sideless surcoat with a matching underdress for women (number 7977).

> Also, can you make stuff without patterns? Even if it's just basic
> stuff....?

But of course!

Newcomers are often encouraged to begin with simple tunics, made using
rectangular construction methods
<http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/cloth/tunics.html>.  They
were worn from the beginning of the core SCA millennium almost to the
end, all over Europe (with some variations in details like the shapes
of sleeves and necklines and the placement and type of trim).  They're
appropriate to gentles of both sexes and all ages.  (Anyone can wear
one floor-length.  Male personae may also wear shorter ones.)  They're
economical of fabric and easy to make and to dress up or down.

Tunics based on the finds classed as "Type 1" by Nockert are the sort
most commonly made in the S.C.A.  There are online several good
articles on these, each with its own strengths.  Jane Stockton's
"Getting Started with Tunics"
<http://needleprayse.webcon.net.au/research/index.html> is a good
overview of how one is put together, with information on plausible
colors and details you can vary to get a look you like.  Reconstructing
History's "Your First Garb"
<http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/index.php?c=8&d=141&a=126&w=2>
takes a slightly different approach to assembly, and has more
information on fabric choice.  And Cynthia du Pré Argent has an
interactive worksheet
<http://www.virtue.to/articles/tunic_worksheet.html> into which you can
put your measurements to get fabric measurements automatically
calculated for you.  (Click "feed them into this form".)

There are fewer articles around with details on other types of tunics.
Barbara L.M. Handley's "The Making of a Greenland Gown"
<http://www.briaca.com/mygarb/greengown1.html> is based on a Nockert
Type 4 garment, and Hefdharfru Vigdís Vestfirzka's "Viking/Norse
Underdress" <http://www.silverdor.org/viking/underdress.html> on
Nockert Type 5 finds.  Sarah Thursfield's articles on early medieval
dresses and tunics
<http://www.insulaedraconis.org/FlamePeace/AOP_new/stcostume1.htm> and
shirts and smocks
<http://www.insulaedraconis.org/FlamePeace/AOP_new/stcostume2.htm>
include cutting diagrams for a few different types.

Just the tunic is enough (for males or females of all ages) for a first
outfit.  If you want a more "complete" look, you might add a hood
<http://www.virtue.to/articles/hoodlum.html>, or (for a male persona) a
coif <http://www.virtue.to/articles/coif.html> or (for a female
persona) a veil <http://www.virtue.to/articles/veils.html>, to keep the
sun off your head and for that extra dash of authenticity.  A plain
leather belt with a simple buckle, a pouch or satchel (or both) to keep
your "stuff" in
<http://moas.atlantia.sca.org/wsnlinks/index.php?
action=displaycat&catid=288>, and some unobtrusive shoes (or period
ones) will round out the look.  Those with male personae who are
uncomfortable in skirts alone may wear hosen or, as early-period
alternative, trews <http://www.regia.org/members/basclot5d.htm>.  (I
suppose those with female personae could do likewise, but as their
skirts will fall to the floor, trews or hosen won't show.)

If you have a female persona and want something more fitted, you can by
adding laces to the basic tunic make a bliaut
<http://www.geocities.com/louise_de_la_mare/12th_Century_Bliaut.htm>
<http://www.eg.bucknell.edu/~lwittie/sca/garb/bliaut.html>.

If you're interested in more elaborate later garments, someone can
probably point you to sites with tips on how to make them.  Just let us
know where and when you want your clothing to "be from".

Coblaith Mhuimhneach

From: Tori Kamm <tori_evil_twin at yahoo.com>
Date: September 11, 2007 10:30:36 AM CDT
To: bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Bryn-gwlad] Patterns

<<<
<SNIP>
Thanks...I'm doing some research right now. I found this:
http://www.folkwear.com/

but the historical info isn't listed on the site. Have you ever used
any of these patterns?

Also, can you make stuff without patterns? Even if it's just basic
stuff....?
 <SNIP>
>>>
 
I looked at the patterns under the historical section, and I must tell you that to my eye they appear to be more costume than our type of garb. I can indeed make many things without patterns, as long as I have some good, detailed pics of what the finished item should look like. I won't say that I can make everything from scratch, and I can't draw worth a darn, but I can work wonders with fabrics.

Lady RagnhildR in Seiðkona
Argent, three plumes conjoined in pile purpure between two ravens addorsed and a raven displayed heard to sinister sable. House Khaotic, Barony of Bryn Gwlad, Ansteorra
(mka Victoria Kammerer)

From: Chiara Francesca <chiara.francesca at gmail.com>
Date: September 16, 2007 8:12:26 PM CDT
To: "'Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc.'" <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Garb Help

I cannot recommend Margo's Patterns enough! If you can afford the entire
collection do so but yes, she has a fantastic pattern that you can most
assuredly use. She includes full documentation that you can check  
every line of reference on. :)

Chiara Francesca

-----Original Message-----
From: ansteorra-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org
[mailto:ansteorra-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Traci Baker
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 5:50 PM
To: Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc.
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Garb Help

Here are a few websites for making one:
http://www.elizabethancostume.net/petticoat.html
http://www.elizabethancostume.net/makekirtle.html

Here are a few patterns to buy:
http://www.margospatterns.com/elizup.htm
http://www.sewingcentral.com/cgi-bin/Web_store/web_store.cgi? 
page=corset.html

Here are a few places you can buy directly:
http://www.castlegardencreations.com/store.php?crn=73&action=show&show_produ
cts_mode=cat_click
www.ebay.com

Hopefully those will help you get started!  If you'd like more
specific info on experiences with the patterns and vendors please feel
free to email me directly!  :)

Elizabeta

> HLDarcy <HLDarcy at hot.rr.com> wrote:
> I will soon be making my 1st Elizabethan garb and I need a source  
> for a hoop petticoat. If someone could direct me to a web page to 
> either purchase one or with directions for making one I would be 
> very appreciative.
>
> HL Darcy Evaline o Lasgwm

From: Elizabeth Crouchet <elizabeth at crouchet.com>
Date: September 14, 2009 2:19:44 AM CDT
To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad <bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Bryn-gwlad] Looking for a Base or a Waffenrok

If you are some of the people looking for this pattern, here is one:

Waffenrok

https://www.reconstructinghistory.com/rh503-waffenrok.php?s=&c=22&d=190&e=33&q=3&p=59&w=21

You can order it online direct here. 

Claire 

From: Sandy Straubhaar <orchzis at hotmail.com>
Date: September 14, 2009 2:09:46 PM CDT
To: bryn gwlad <bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] Waffenrock

This pattern recommended by Claire is the pattern I made Reynard's 
red-and-white rapier outfit with.  I'm warning any potential buyers that
I had to alter it _a lot_.  It is oddly engineered, particularly around
the shoulders.  (That said, it was a handy reference for basic ideas.)

Another thing that puzzles me: the way we want so badly to have
one-to-one correspondence in clothing terminology.  This garment 
(in this pattern) is a very specific kind of 16thc. male clothing.  
"Waffenrock," on the other hand (note spelling -- sorry to be a pedant) 
is a very broad term which includes things we'd probably rather call 
Tabards or Surcotes.  The one-to-one correspondence just ain't there.
Just as in the modern era there is no single, unique type of Skirt, or
Blouse, or Shirt.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&um=1&q=waffenrock&sa=N&start=0&ndsp=21

From: pancua <pancua at gmail.com>
Date: September 18, 2009 3:59:19 PM CDT
To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad <bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Bryn-gwlad] Margo Anderson's Tudor Pattern Taking Pre-Orders

Just thought I would let people know that she has finally released the Tudor pattern she has been working on.

http://onetoughcostumer.blogspot.com/2009/09/tudor-ladys-wasrdrobe-pattern-is-now.html

http://www.margospatterns.com/Products/TudorLady.html
-- 
In humble service to The Barony of  Bryn Gwlad, 

Lady Magdelena "Dena" Cortez
MKA Katy Hendrick
Cell: 512-585-4172

To: SCA Newcomers list <scanewcomers at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: Fabric question...
Posted by: "Elizabeth Walpole" ewalpole at grapevine.com.au e_walpole
Date: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:56 am ((PST))

It's also a good idea to invest in good patterns from reputable companies
e.g. Margo Anderson http://www.margospatterns.com/ & The Tudor Tailor
http://www.tudortailor.com/tailorsshop.htm for 16th century (I'm sure there
are others for earlier periods) or learn how to create your own patterns the
period way by draping fabric on a body (a duct tape double will come in
handy if you want anything fitted) there are good books out there that give
you an idea of the pattern shapes for different periods, but there's also
some abysmal ones so ask for opinions before you trust a book.

Elizabeth
-----------------------------------------
Elizabeth Walpole   | Elizabeth Beaumont
Canberra, Australia | Politarchopolis, Lochac
http://magpiecostumer.110mb.com/

To: SCA Newcomers list <scanewcomers at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: patterns and clothing forms
Posted by: "Bambi TBNL" hippy_dippy_dancer at yahoo.com hippy_dippy_dancer
Date: Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:03 pm ((PST))

I know I am really going out on a limb here but...has anybody sen the newest simplicity tudor for women pattern....not too shabby!!!! actually is is in 2 patterns...one is outer clothing and one is underpinnings n such...but really , it does not suck considering the stuff that has come out before and the sizing is actually quite generous...I just made it for someone. and the  tudor corset alone really worked surprisingly well ..I actually had to cut the pattern down cause the muslin proved  the fit did not take into account the squishing down that occurs when a real corset does its job!!! lol

 Bambi (To be named later) TBNL 

To: SCA Newcomers list <scanewcomers at yahoogroups.com>
Re: patterns and clothing forms
Posted by: "Elizabeth Walpole" ewalpole at grapevine.com.au e_walpole
Date: Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:24 am ((PST))

Simplicity has been coming out with some reasonable patterns recently.
Especially if you do 18th/19th century as well as SCA (but then the research
is much easier for 18th & 19th centuries as there are so many extant
garments, after years of making 16th century clothing it felt like cheating
when I researched 19th century stuff). Ease in garments that are not
supposed to have ease is a recurring problem in Simplicity's historic line
(they had the same problem with the Civil War corset patterns), the pattern
designer comes up with a corset pattern and then Simplicity adds ease so a
corset ends up being bigger than the measurements the envelope says it will
fit!

Simplicity 2589 (http://www.simplicity.com/p-1547-costumes.aspx) is better
than anything else I've seen for that period from the major pattern
companies but unfortunately that's not really saying much. I think its major
flaw is that it's designed to cash in on The Other Boleyn Girl, so it
recreates the flawed costumes of that movie (e.g. most Tudor portraits don't
show the skirt pleated in front, it's smooth in front and pleated at the
back, though there are a couple of 1550s-1560s gowns with pleats that are
moving closer to the front as fashion is transitioning into what we would
call an Elizabethan style). For a beginner it's much better than most people
wear in their first few years in the SCA but it really reflects theories on
construction that are about 20 years old (though my first Tudor gown was
based on the same research and I still wear it occasionally, when the
weather and occasion call for 8yds of velvet ;D). From what I can see the
one really bright point in this pattern is the French Hood Most other French
Hood patterns I've seen look like a sunvisor turned backwards and tend to
stick straight up in the air, this one has a really nice looking period
silhouette (although it looks like the version in the photo used buckram
that was too light weight, so it developed wrinkles) and it's good to see a
pattern with the complete ensemble not just the dress. If you're serious
about Tudor get a copy of The Tudor Tailor for the latest research (you can
order it direct from the authors, http://www.tudortailor.com/, or it's also
available from other online bookshops), I have yet to hear of anyone who has
regretted the investment, if you can't afford it right now ask people in
your area, just about anyone who is serious about 16th century costuming
will have a copy.

Personally I would be happier to see the underwear pattern, 2621
(http://www.simplicity.com/p-1576-costumes.aspx), combined with the
Elizabethan pattern, 3782 (http://www.simplicity.com/p-2009-costumes.aspx),
as the best information we have at the moment suggests that corsets (as
opposed to an underdress with a stiffened bodice, which gives a similar
silhouette) probably didn't turn up until around the 1580s or 1590s (it
basically required somebody to have the brainwave that now bodices are boned
they will stay in place without the weight of the skirt holding them down
and we can make the bodice and skirt as separate garments). And overall I am
happier with the Elizabethan pattern than the Tudor pattern (it has some
minor inaccuracies I would nitpick, e.g. cross lacing instead of spiral
lacing, but nothing major).

Note my assessment of the Tudor patterns is based on looking at the images
online I haven't got a copy of this pattern yet (though I have got a copy of
the Elizabethan pattern) Once I have got a copy I may reassess my opinion of
the pattern.

Alright that is enough of a novel for now (can you tell that Tudor is my
passion ;P) if you really have more time than money this pattern can be
improved, but it will be a lot of work, and it is probably not a project for
somebody who isn't good at visualising how pattern shapes will work when
they are on a body.
-----------------------------------------
Elizabeth Walpole   | Elizabeth Beaumont
Canberra, Australia | Politarchopolis, Lochac
http://magpiecostumer.110mb.com/

From: Sunny Briscoe <sunnyday72 at gmail.com>
Date: January 6, 2010 2:30:41 PM CST
To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad <bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] Experience, not a purist

I would like to recommend the modern commercial McCall's Pattern # 4805 for hoods
http://www.mccallpattern.com/item/M4805.htm?tab=list/costumes&page=all

It is _very_ similar to some of the extant hoods in Woven Into the Earth and all the hard work is already done.  The gore is even in the right place.  I do feel like it's a bit large, but it would be easy to scale down.  It also has a flat cap, and a "swashbuckler" type hat that I can not vouch for.

Joann's and Hancock's routinely have their patterns on sale for $.99, so the cost is minimal.

Elisabetta

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